Bivvy a Month 2017.

[restlessshawn]

I really must try this next year as I sort of hibernate
I'm assuming bothies count?

[RIP]

Yep bothies count - but you might as well bivi in a Travelodge if you're gonna do that .

"Brompton" - fatbikes, Bromptons.... OK, the gauntlet is laid down now for.... unicycles!

[restlessshawn]

Yep bothies count - but you might as well bivi in a Travelodge if you're gonna do that .

"Brompton" - fatbikes, Bromptons.... OK, the gauntlet is laid down now for.... unicycles!

well I didn't mean bothy every month

[Dr Nick]

Yep bothies count - but you might as well bivi in a Travelodge if you're gonna do that .

"Brompton" - fatbikes, Bromptons.... OK, the gauntlet is laid down now for.... unicycles!

Hmmm, I have a unicycle (that I've owned for alnost 40 years) and a nice bivvy spot a mile from home..... my seat pack will fit... and a new bivvy to try out...

[Borderer]

It's been done....

http://www.theoutdoorsstation.co.uk/201 ... -my-wagon/

[RayKickButts]

I see that fatbiking.eu have launched their own 'Bivvy a month' in accordance with the guidelines set out here. If completing BaM on a normal bike isn't enough for you, you can now do it with the hindrance of a fat bike

All mine have been done on my fatty with 5" tyres does that make me extra hardcore Stu?

[RIP]

Now that would be impressive Nick, I shall spend all of ChilternBivi badgering you to commit . It would certainly force you to travel light - no option for a frame bag, or feedbags, or fuel tanks or any of those fripperies .

Yeah only jokin' RN, come on in the water's lovely; bothy, bivi, binbag, whatever. I really reeeally must make an effort to get up to the Borders next year, you can show me the best places to purchase a veg-haggis ('haggesse'?) dinner . February sounds like a good month to me...

EDIT: good spot B. Well that's put us in our place, I'm humbled. 734 miles. Stunning effort. AND wildcamping, and solo; quite an achievement for a 20-year-old. I very rarely chip in to these "sponsory" type things but made a small exception in this case. I'm in no way being patronising here, quite the opposite, but it's ace to see women up there at the top table of BP. I'd advocate a bit of "positive discrimination" for things like WRT applications, 50/50 would make it a very interesting beast indeed.

[BigdummySteve]

50/50 would make it a very interesting beast indeed.

Easy reg...

[RIP]

Straight up, guv, honest. I have quite strong feelings about it. With my "cycle trainer" hat on (not the one with the panda on top) I spend a fair bit of effort discussing with girls/women about barriers to getting on bikes, particularly for "personal transport", and what frequently puts them off. It's all well-recognised stuff - "bad weather", "clothing [perceived to be] required", "bike discomfort", "no showers at work", "lunatic drivers", various social/cultural issues etc etc. I would imagine BP has all those barriers with the added disincentive of slugs-on-the-nose-in-the-morning. I'm sure the well-respected female brethren of This Place will be along soon to express this more eloquently than me! Particularly those who like me don't actually mind pulmonate land-based gastropods perched on their noses of a morning .

(Yeah, another post which deserves its own Banter thread )

((Having re-read my witterings, and I can't help but add a note of levity as usual, I can see that the "barriers" might actually be "attractions" to any would-be BP-er of course, so I'm not sure quite where that leaves my point ))

[Borderer]

It is true that it bikepacking is a male-dominated activity. Certainly there are very few solo female bikepackers anyway. I think for a lot of women the fear of nasty things that creepy men might do to them in locations where nobody can hear them call for help is what puts them off. Statistically you would have to be extremely unlucky for something like that to happen to you out in the wilds, but I do think it is a factor. A lot of women have said that to me anyway - that they wouldn't do the sort of wild camping we do because they would feel too vulnerable. I can't condemn that, because everybody has to make their own decisions about keeping safe, but it does seem like a shame that fear of a statistically unlikely event stops them from doing something enjoyable.

[ScotRoutes]

I was actually going to suggest that bikepacking is a field where women are doing well against the guys. A number of names come to mind but, locally, I'd mention Lee Craigie and Jenny Graham and then there's the Adventure Syndicate initiative too.

[RIP]

Thanks 'Routes, that's pleasing to hear. I'll cheer up a bit then. http://theadventuresyndicate.com/).

B, take your point about the vulnerability issue. Statistically unlikely as you say but certainly an issue. Wish I knew the answer . Back to my idea of encouraging the ladies onto WRT etc somehow would be a start I think.

[Borderer]

Well yes, safety in numbers and all that. Group events could be a good way to get more women into bikepacking to start with.
I think the Adventure Syndicate stuff is really great, but I can't see that it has brought a lot of women in here for example so far. Be great if it did though. I don't know what the ratio of male to female posters in here is, but it is pretty skewed.
Generally across the globe, studies have shown women to be more sedentary than men, with all the attendant health issues this causes. When researchers looked into it further they found that fear of assault was what kept women inside their homes, rather than getting out there and getting active. This is more pronounced in societies which are very male dominated and the rule of law is weak, but I do think it applies in some measure to this country too. I think the recent '#me too' campaign has shown that these fears do unfortunately have some substance. I don't have any answers. Maybe some sort of female buddy system for women who want to go out into the wilds would work? I dunno.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Over the last 12 years or so, I've guided / coached numerous groups of women from many varied backgrounds ... I've taken about 5 bikepacking in that time. I think 'fear' does play a part but in my experience, it's more a fear of conditions than assault that puts most off. However, I think there is some middle ground as I discovered earlier in the year on a trip to Scotland with Jameso and the crew from Pinnacle.

Maybe the WRT needs a 'female only' club next year? - although I can see that might encourage men in frocks

[ScotRoutes]

Over the last 12 years or so, I've guided / coached numerous groups of women from many varied backgrounds ... I've taken about 5 bikepacking in that time. I think 'fear' does play a part but in my experience, it's more a fear of conditions than assault that puts most off. However, I think there is some middle ground as I discovered earlier in the year on a trip to Scotland with Jameso and the crew from Pinnacle.

Maybe the WRT needs a 'female only' club next year? - although I can see that might encourage men in frocks

I've already done the BB200 though!

Some interesting reading here

http://thatemilychappell.com/

[benp1]

Maybe the WRT needs a 'female only' club next year? - although I can see that might encourage men in frocks

Doesn't that already exist north of the border. Their frocks have a nice little checked pattern on them

[RIP]

"brought a lot of women in here" - I emailed Hannah so would be nice if she throws caution to the wind and rocks up here <waves> .

Just off to dig my best frock out......

EDIT: "...north of the border. Their frocks..." . Arrgg!.... runs away and hides behind something solid to watch between fingers

[whitestone]

I remember having a conversation with Stu about this, after a BB200 I think. For whatever reason fewer women than men continue with sport or athletic activities beyond school.

My main sport used to be fell running which is about as egalitarian a sport as you could think of: there's no men's race and women's race, there's the race - everyone no matter what their ability, age or gender starts at the same time and runs the same course. There are age and gender prizes/positions though. Occasionally a woman will win a race so it's not a foregone conclusion. Typically somewhere between 12% and 14% (or 1 in 7 to 1 in 8) of any given field are women. That proportion also extends to the long distance challenges like the Bob Graham Round.

In bikepacking, then looking at start lists for the BB200 or the HT550 and the proportion is similar - 7 out of 60 in the HT for example.

And here's the thing. Once you get to distance events (the BGR is 63 miles for example) then there's very little to differentiate between genders. Jasmin Paris is the 6th fastest ever person on the Bob Graham and is the fastest (by 45 minutes) on the Charlie Ramsay Round in Scotland.

My wife is happy to bivy on her own but we do live in a rural area so know how quiet things are during the night. As an experiment go and park up in a layby on a country lane at night and count how many vehicles go past. There'll be a few just after pub/club closing time then sod all until the early commuters get on the move some time in the morning. Somewhere like Mid-Wales you could apply this to the main A roads How many of the occupants in those vehicles are going to stop and head off into the countryside? Probably a smaller proportion than would do during the daytime which is close to none.

[Borderer]

Women don't always want to voice fear of assault btw - it can be seen to make them even more vulnerable. Just because they are not saying it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it! I know I carry out a mental risk assessment every single time we wild camp and also when we stay in bothies for example too. That's just how it is. I do agree it isn't the only issue though.

[whitestone]

Women don't always want to voice fear of assault btw - it can be seen to make them even more vulnerable. Just because they are not saying it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it! I know I carry out a mental risk assessment every single time we wild camp and also when we stay in bothies for example too. That's just how it is. I do agree it isn't the only issue though.

I find that a depressing indictment of our society and the attitudes of certain sections of it towards others. Perhaps even sadder is that I understand why you (women in general) do it.

Interesting that the main forum page notes that the newest member is a woman

[RIP]

Ooh well spotted that man.

Welcome to the madhouse Philippa! An ideal person to chip in - a forum baptism by fire for you

[ScotRoutes]

Women don't always want to voice fear of assault btw - it can be seen to make them even more vulnerable. Just because they are not saying it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it! I know I carry out a mental risk assessment every single time we wild camp and also when we stay in bothies for example too. That's just how it is. I do agree it isn't the only issue though.

I'm not trying to suggest there isn't a problem, but don't we all do that?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Women don't always want to voice fear of assault btw - it can be seen to make them even more vulnerable.

I'm sure that's right but I've found many never reach that point in their reasoning and progress no further than the initial - 'f*ck that, I'm not sleeping outside with the slugs and pooing in a field'

Most members of society are generally soft. People aren't simply used to their comforts, they see them as some kind of right. Trying to part someone from their phone for 5 minutes often proves to be harder than platting snot, so putting them in a situation where they may be dirty, cold or wet (or more rightly, perceive that they will be) for 24 hours or more, will hold zero appeal for most.

I also wonder whether the female bikepacking role models don't do much for the cause either? ... maybe if their tales were more 'ordinary', more women would be encouraged rather than feeling that they could never do that. To be inspired, you need to believe something is achievable ... dunno, I'm guessing.

[Borderer]

Women don't always want to voice fear of assault btw - it can be seen to make them even more vulnerable. Just because they are not saying it doesn't mean they aren't thinking it! I know I carry out a mental risk assessment every single time we wild camp and also when we stay in bothies for example too. That's just how it is. I do agree it isn't the only issue though.

I'm not trying to suggest there isn't a problem, but don't we all do that?

Of course. But attempting to equate men's and women's experiences in this regard really does women a grave disservice. Men don't know what it is like to grow up female. Conversations like this one and '#me too' goes some way to address that but you can't possibly understand it fully, no more than I can understand what it is like to grow up black or asian for example. As '#me too' has shown, women have to be on their guard constantly to try to make sure they don't find themselves in vulnerable situations. It goes on at a subconscious level most of the time. I really don't think that is the same with men. I just don't think that is going through a man's head when he finds himself alone in a room with another man for example.

[Borderer]

Women don't always want to voice fear of assault btw - it can be seen to make them even more vulnerable.

I'm sure that's right but I've found many never reach that point in their reasoning and progress no further than the initial - 'f*ck that, I'm not sleeping outside with the slugs and pooing in a field'

Most members of society are generally soft. People aren't simply used to their comforts, they see them as some kind of right. Trying to part someone from their phone for 5 minutes often proves to be harder than platting snot, so putting them in a situation where they may be dirty, cold or wet (or more rightly, perceive that they will be) for 24 hours or more, will hold zero appeal for most.

I also wonder whether the female bikepacking role models don't do much for the cause either? ... maybe if their tales were more 'ordinary', more women would be encouraged rather than feeling that they could never do that. To be inspired, you need to believe something is achievable ... dunno, I'm guessing.

I have to admit to hating all that cultural stuff that many women seem to have adopted of needing or deserving 'pampering' and so on. You can't even go camping any more it has to be glamping....
That said the privations of being away from sanitary facilities are more challenging for women. Having your period when wild camping isn't something I think any woman would say was 'fun' or that she looked forward to. It's not that bad though and shouldn't stop women from getting out there its true.
I would agree about the overly adventurous write-ups though. Many women won't relate to well-to-do young women hopping backwards across Africa 'for charity'. Those sort of stories do very little to inspire women to throw a leg over a bike and see where that path goes.