Guided bike packing

[Purty]

Guided bike packing? Discuss.

[AlasdairMc]

There's about three answers to this:

It's a great way to get people outdoors

It's a travesty, shouldn't be allowed

Jumpers for goalposts, apprenticeships through backpacking or mountain biking.

Where do you sit on this? I'm going to guess one of the latter two

[ScotRoutes]

I'm failing to see how it could be construed as a "bad" thing. Lots of folk get "guiding" at all sorts of outdoor activities. Is there something special about bikepacking that makes it very different?

[cyclingtiger]

I think there's a bit of a perception that bikepacking should be exploration adventure and guiding compromises that a bit. There's no learning by trial and error. There's no earning your bivi spots by the progress of luck and judgement. There's no sucking down a cold cup of tea at pissing wet o'clock in the morning because you accidentally packed the empty gas canister. These and a myriad of other milestone pub stories will get missed because you've bought yourself an easy out on the hard won lessons of those that have gone before you.

But then again, isn't a lot of what goes on here on this forum a digital, if slightly haphazard, form of guided bikepacking. A wealth of knowledge gets shared at the drop of that hat. Or how about the LHC and all those aforementioned pub stories.

And then there's another side of it. Sure one day I may make it to the point where I could have a crack at the HT550 or even the Tour Divide as a solo or unguided group endeavour. This is because I know enough about Scotland, Canada and the USA, how things work there and what to expect on the ride to keep myself relatively safe. But if I wanted to go on a bikepacking trip in the Altai Mountains or the Torres del Paine then I'd be foolish not to at least consider using a guide. After all, it would be silly to end up spending all that time money and effort only to do a week or so of miserable hike a bike and miss out on the best, or even just the good bits, that the area has to offer. Or worse, I could unwittingly stumble into a nest of angry drop bears that all the locals know about.

I guess it depends on your definition of guided. I'm sure at some point someone will offer a full service, bag drop, put up your tarp and cook you breakfast guiding and that is definitely missing the point. Doesn't have to be that though.

[Taylor]

I guess it depends on your definition of guided. I'm sure at some point someone will offer a full service, bag drop, put up your tarp and cook you breakfast guiding and that is definitely missing the point. Doesn't have to be that though.

Is that not something like the BC bike race or to some extent Trans Wales?
They find the best riding and deliver your bags, supply the cooked food and put up your tent in the case of BC bike race(not sure about Trans Wales for tent erection).

[Dan_K]

Anything that encourages people to get outside and do stuff is a good thing.

Also, there are some things that people need to be guided on that you won't necessarily "pick up" along the way such as leaving no trace and caring for the environment.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I lead 'guided' bikepacking trips and don't see any issue.

As an example, I'm taking two women out next week. They both cycle but don't enjoy 'trail riding' in the modern sense but do enjoy exploring. Left to their own devices they would either (a) never attempt bikepacking (b) give it a whirl and most likely never go again. By coming out, they get to see just what it can be. They won't have their hands held but they will learn about packing, shelters, cooking, etc which will hopefully set some foundations for the future.

There are many aspects of bikepacking which unnerve people. I'm sure there's people on this very forum who would go further, travel lighter and maybe get more out of it had they not just 'jumped in'. Some of the people I've previously taken out have gone on to much bigger things and others have probably never gone again ... but they all got the chance to experience bikepacking first hand without a massive outlay.

I'm rambling now, I'll shut up.

[GregMay]

Big groups bad. Small groups good. Same approach I take to any instructed/guided activities.

Used to be that climbing and paddling guiding made me my money day to day. So I have no issue with bikepacking as another outdoor industry job.

But, it'll always be secondary to doing it yourself. However, many people don't want, or don't have the knowledge (area or technical) or don't have the confidence to do so - hence, why it's not such a bad thing.

[benp1]

There was a thread about someone's charging rates for guided bikepacking trips and there was a fair bit of comment

I think it's a good thing, getting more people into the outdoors is a winner

[giryan]

I think it's a great idea, at some point I'm going to try to do some with my girlfriend, she doesn't cycle much, but has enthusiasm and would like to give it a go. I am confident enough with my own abilities at cycling and camping(or at least suffering, and just living through it), but wouldn't feel confident to do it for both of us, and I'd quite like to not put her off on the first attempt if things don't go to plan :)

[whitestone]

I can see both sides of this. I think "introductory" courses/weekends are a great idea. Not everyone wants to splash out on even a small subset of the gear plus a few hints and pointers on wild camping/bivying; gear choice; route choice; etc. can go a long way to removing much of the fear of the unknown which to some extent we all have. A lot of mountain bikers only ride at trail centres, anything else is the big bad world, in a similar manner there are a significant number of "climbers" who only climb at indoor climbing walls, climbing on natural crags placing your own gear is an alien concept. When I started climbing I did a day of instruction/guided climbing to pick up the basic technical aspects of tying in, building belays, etc., not much different from an introductory weekend bikepacking really - plus it placated my mum .

On the other hand: too much hand holding and the client isn't really getting the ethos behind bikepacking, it's just a bike ride where someone looks after you. In other spheres commercial interests tend to go with what they know, apply this to bikepacking and they'll more than likely use the same bivy spots on a regular basis which could well cause problems.

I've used guided services for mountain biking trips/holidays abroad (Peru and Cyprus), might not be the case so much these days but ten/twelve years ago I might have struggled to find information about the trails we rode. In the case of Peru there was quite a bit of using the hired bus to move between areas.

[Bearbonesnorm]

On the other hand: too much hand holding and the client isn't really getting the ethos behind bikepacking, it's just a bike ride where someone looks after you. In other spheres commercial interests tend to go with what they know, apply this to bikepacking and they'll more than likely use the same bivy spots on a regular basis which could well cause problems.

True Bob - I think that anyone offering bikepacking on a commercial basis, needs to undersand that not only do they have a care of duty to their clients, they have one to the rest of the bikepacking community as well. Like many activities, bikepacking carries a 'price of admission' and it shouldn't be dumbed down or softened for those who aren't willing to pay - show it in it's best light, sure but show it in its true light too.

[barney]

I once went on a "guided ride" with Stu, it was a great trip and amongst the banter I learnt an awful lot (even if it doesn't always get put it into practice).

As a comparative solo novice at the time I really enjoyed myself and consider it part of my "bikepacking education" that was built upon with trips of my own.

[thenorthwind]

I'd like to think that, on the whole, the sort of people who would do guided bikepacking trips would do more good than harm when it comes to instilling a sense of responsibility (to the environment, and the rest of the community they, rightly or wrongly, represent). Of course if this "industry" got too large, there would inevitably be less diligent guides trying to cash in, but I doubt this will ever with bikepacking. I think there's enough "character-building" involved that this probably won't ever be the case. Even mountain bike guiding in general is hardly a huge industry in this country.

[whitestone]

I don't think there are a huge number of MTB "guides" here in the UK. There's quite a few "skills"/instructors, I've attended one of Ed Oxley's skills courses, but don't know if he's a "guide" as well.

Obviously can't be everywhere but I can't remember ever meeting a "guided" party out on the tracks and trails (not trail centres). Other than on ITTs or the BB events how often do you see riders where you think: "Oh, they're out bikepacking?"

[Bearbonesnorm]

I don't think there are a huge number of MTB "guides" here in the UK.

There isn't many because in reality, most riders in the UK don't see being guided as offering value for money.

There's quite a few "skills"/instructors

When I started coaching around ten years ago, there were literally a handful of us, I imagine that number has now multiplied ten fold.

Obviously can't be everywhere but I can't remember ever meeting a "guided" party out on the tracks and trails

I meet quite a few. Usually they're not 'just out riding' but are doing something 'bigger' like the TCW or C2C where they perceive added vfm. The majority are riding between B&B and having their luggage transferred rather than bikepacking.

I do occasionally meet other people bikepacking and sadly, they generally seem miserable and in the main struggle to raise a smile or reply to a cheery hello ... that's perhaps more to do with me than them though

[ScotRoutes]

how often do you see riders where you think: "Oh, they're out bikepacking?"

Most weekends

[HaYWiRe]

I think there's a big difference between 'guided' and 'doing all the work for the customer'

Taking someone out, providing a basic selection of gear (that someone might not have bought into yet for a hobby they had yet to try) and showing them the basics could very well be a great way to give someone that buzz that'll lead them to do it themselves. I'm not suggesting setting up their tarp for them but providing them with one, settling up your own and letting them try it for themselves, if its a mess them you offer advice whilst still leaving them the achievement of 'doing it themselves'

Only problem I see, for it to be both commercial and true to the sport is wildcamping. After all, outside of scotland/Dartmoor its technically illegal, and someone paying to go out and "illegally" camp just seems problematic?
One solution is private land for a set purpose, no facilities, feels wild but you return to a place that is guide owned, legal and little worry of bivi spots becoming ruined.
This might not be "bikepacking" but seems the closest it can be whilst remaining commercial.


I can almost see it similar to Alpkits event, giving people a taster at outdoor activities, sleeping out and generally being a great social.

[fatbikephil]

I think the problem is - who wants to do a guided bikepacking trip?? I can see the sales pitch - 'how would you like to spend a weekend riding in the rain, camping wet, eating a freeze dried meal, riding more in the rain, repeat.' If you go off on your own you can choose your times and weather but if you book a weekend with a guide you end up with whatever comes along. If your doing a supported guided trip with luggage being carried in a truck and a nice cosy hotel and bar waiting at the end of the day then having iffy weather isn't so much of an issue. But paying to be wet and miserable and have a crap nights sleep??

Plus you don't need to be guided - just get on with it!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Plus you don't need to be guided - just get on with it!

Perhaps that should be " Plus I don't need to be guided" because some people do.

Also, remember that guided bikepacking shouldn't just be a matter of follow me, we're going this way. In part It should be a 'coaching' exercise too.

[Mariner]

I assume bothies would be outside the remit of guided tours but do I recall mention of this happening in Scotland?

[whitestone]

The points Haywire makes about wild camping and commercial concerns do have a resonance: About ten years ago a disused limestone quarry in the Dales was "developed" for rock climbing. There was a bit of fuss with the people living nearby mainly regarding the means of access. The local BMC reps sorted all this out and signs were put in place and agreements/accords reached. Then a company began using the quarry for instructing and introductory outdoor climbing courses but didn't ask the landowner's permission. There were a couple of other problems bubbling along as well. End result: access denied to all.

Similarly you used to be able to "wild camp" in the meadows near the Clachaig in Glen Coe but that got stopped sometime in the mid to late 1980s but I don't know the reason for that. The most recent example (and one that does affect the bikepacking community) are the wild camping restrictions in the Loch Lomond National Park.

The problem with having "official" wild camping spots is that a landowner can't just set aside a field for a campsite, it needs permission, regulation and all the palaver that a modern bureaucracy/society demands. Having regular camping in one spot means you also need to consider sanitation and the like. A company using someone's land on a regular basis is likely going to be making payments of some sort even if they are only "in kind" and that introduces a whole new batch of problems: what happens if you or I turn up - do we have to pay? We aren't party to that agreement but we'd be suffering the fallout.

The above is a somewhat doom laden scenario and at the moment I don't think there's the numbers either of people bikepacking or of people being guided doing the same for it to be a general problem but areas that are advertised in some manner - "Can you tell me any good bivy spots?" or are target overnight spots on long distance routes - might have issues.

[deft punk]

you used to be able to "wild camp" in the meadows near the Clachaig in Glen Coe but that got stopped sometime in the mid to late 1980s but I don't know the reason for that.

Overuse causing environmental damage* was I think the official terminology...

LL&T National Park is a bit** more controversial. It's a policing issue compounded by a whole load of NIMBYism & commercial interests.
*Jobbies & the resulting bacteria leeching into the burn to the rest of us
**Understatement of the year!

[Ray Young]

^^^ I always thought the problem in LL&T national park was irresponsible wild camping. People car camping ( Glasgow is not far away) and basically having parties with large fires, loud music and loads of alcohol then leaving all their detritus behind for someone else to pick up.

[ScotRoutes]

^^^ I always thought the problem in LL&T national park was irresponsible wild camping. People car camping ( Glasgow is not far away) and basically having parties with large fires, loud music and loads of alcohol then leaving all their detritus behind for someone else to pick up.

Well, it is. However, the bye-laws restricting camping apply to everyone, even the quiet, hidden-away, law-abiding backpacker/bikepacker.