Bivi bag only?

[HaYWiRe]

Not sure if this has been covered before, but I'm curious if anyone does it and what they use?

I'm wondering if anyone uses one solo, I.e, without a tarp, as their sole shelter.
Conditions for use would be clear nights, or at least only the odd light shower/mist.
I'm looking at what options are out there, or what fabrics are good as I dont mind a bit of MYOG.

While not for racing exactly, I'm looking into it for fast and light overnights near trails.

Also, anyone use hooped bivis? I see them being very cramped single skin tents when closed but could the idea be useful for holding up a bugnet or hood?

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm sure many will use a bivvy as a sole shelter if conditions are right. However, get it wrong and prepare yourself for a miserable night. If it happens to be raining when you stop or you've already become wet, then trying to get set-up, stripped off and inside the bag without getting other stuff wet is a real effort.

If you do want to go down the bivvy only / MYOG route I'd suggest 3 layer eVent for the top and something PU coated for the base. Don't forget that you'll need to tape the seams too. Sadly, eVent is pretty heavy, so often a light tarp + water resistant bivvy will weigh less or not very much more than a roomy waterproof bag.

Hooped bivvy? ...IMO worst of both worlds in many cases.

[Dan_K]

I'd only consider this for solo overnights with a good forecast or as a backup for a bothy trip.
I'll be using this approach for the capital trail in April but will be looking to stay in bothies really unless the weather is good.
That being said, I've not had a proper look at the route and worked out distances between the bothies...

[Ray Young]

I think you may need to rethink the bothy idea, Bunny's Bothy comes first at about 35 miles so a bit soon to stop.Minch Moor Bothy has been demolished due to it's wooden foundations having rotted, there are no plans to replace it.

[Dan_K]

I think you may need to rethink the bothy idea, Bunny's Bothy comes first at about 35 miles so a bit soon to stop.Minch Moor Bothy has been demolished due to it's wooden foundations having rotted, there are no plans to replace it.

Thanks for the info Ray. What's your impression of the route anyway? I'm unsure as to whether to do this or something else completely and head up to Fort William or similar.

(sorry for the thread hijack Haywire)

[Ray Young]

Is it a route worth doing? Overall I'd say yes. The first part until you hit the Lammermuir Hills is to me a bit long being equally divided between cycle paths, farm tracks and road. After that it gets much better with some good hill riding and great views. Markus Stitz who put the route together will have had his options limited by having to start/ finish in Edinburgh and have it doable over two days but given that he has done a very good job. There are options to shorten the route as well should you need too. I believe Markus intends to change some of the route when he gets back from cycling round the world (lucky bugger). The end in Edinburgh is a bit messy but that's because he had to change it at the last minute due to a sporting event being held in Hollywood Park on the same weekend. Also cycling on the canal path in Edinburgh is a complete pain, far too many dog walkers, joggers etc. I avoid it at all costs. Hope this helps, there's a few others on this forum as well who could throw in their pennies worth.

[benp1]

Yes, many times, but only when it's forecast for good weather! If it's a bit dodgy then tarp every time

[fatbikephil]

Funnily enough I've been going through the same dilema. I got a Rab ascent bivi cheap last year but only used it once, as it happens on the Capital Trail. I was tucked in under a nice dense plantation of sitka spruce so despite it being a pretty dreich night I had a good, if short, kip. Having then read about all the condensation issues in rain or cold I bottled out using it more often. My problem is that once you add a tarp I'd rather just take my tent as its about the same weight and a lot easier to put up if your knackered and its crap weather / midge hell. Like Dan, my plan is to use it as a bothy trip back up in the face of a decent forecast.

[Charliecres]

Ditto

[ScotRoutes]

Yep. Often works out as the best option, especially if you are in terrain that makes a tarp difficult to pitch. Also handy for kipping in bus shelters, doorways etc :)

[Ben98]

I pretty much only use a bivi as I'm too lazy to pitch my tarp. If it rains and I'm using my Hunka, I have a miserable night. If it rains and I'm in my hooped bivi, I flip the hood down, zip it up a bit and go back to sleep, its brilliant for me personally, even if I get a little bit of condensation and its hard to get changed in its just so fast and simple.

[Teetosugars]

Yeah, as others have said, if the weathers good, then yes, just a bivi bag..
I've a hooped bivi from my time as a squaddie,I like it if I'm honest, mind, my terra nova tent weighs about the same, so rarely use it.

What's good in the world of bivi bags these days? Currently only have a hunka, just after something a bit, er, more refined.
I think...

[Bearbonesnorm]

even if I get a little bit of condensation

Uhm, I recall you looked like Marine Boy the morning of last years BB200



As has already been said, in the right conditions a bivvy on its own is great, you shouldn't really have any issues at all, although on a clear night condensation is likely to be worse than if you were also under a tarp.

Below is the situation that disturbs me and sometimes I do wonder whether people give it enough thought.

It's 10.00pm, you've been riding for 14 hours, you're tired, hungry and to make matters worse it's been raining since tea time. There's no natural shelter available and no buildings, walls, etc. You're only carrying a bivvy bag but it's fully waterproof and capable of being completely sealed up.

How do you get your sleeping bag / mat into the bivvy without getting either wet or water in the bivvy. Then how do you get out of your wet gear, into dry gear without getting your dry stuff wet? Also, you'll recall I said you were hungry, so can you make a brew or cook something?
If it continues to rain throughout the night. Are you able to repeat the procedure in reverse in the morning or are you now past caring about stuff getting wet because you've decided to sack it off and go home? No matter how often I think about this, I can never dream up a decent solution.

[fatbikephil]

How do you get your sleeping bag / mat into the bivvy without getting either wet or water in the bivvy. Then how do you get out of your wet gear, into dry gear without getting your dry stuff wet? Also, you'll recall I said you were hungry, so can you make a brew or cook something?
If it continues to rain throughout the night. Are you able to repeat the procedure in reverse in the morning or are you now past caring about stuff getting wet because you've decided to sack it off and go home? No matter how often I think about this, I can never dream up a decent solution.

Pretty much the scenario that went through my mind every time I planned a trip last year, inevitably resulting in the Bivi bag being hurled out of the front bag and replaced with my beloved Vango helium....

[slarge]

I keep my sleeping bag inside the bivvy bag when packing initially, then on the next morning they can either be separated or packed together, depending on how damp the sleeping bag is. It avoids the faff and risk of getting the bivvy set up in the rain on the first night.

[AlasdairMc]

I'd only consider this for solo overnights with a good forecast or as a backup for a bothy trip.
I'll be using this approach for the capital trail in April but will be looking to stay in bothies really unless the weather is good.
That being said, I've not had a proper look at the route and worked out distances between the bothies...

While Ray is correct in that Bunny's Bothy is 35 miles in, this assumes an Edinburgh start. Depending on where you are, a Peebles start could be more appropriate as it's probably about half the route distance from there to Bunny's. I personally think the best of the riding on the trail is from Bunny's to Peebles anyway.

[HaYWiRe]

My thinking is another tool for a job, 90% of the time ill take my tent, although heavier its roomy for 2, foolproof, and works well in the less than ideal.

But I'm looking at ideas for when pitching isn't an option, say on flat rock or caves in ideal weather. Area is well known and relatively local.

Would a hunka simply be the best option or is there anything with a bit of bug protection?

[Zippy]

For me, bivvy only is for when there is a high confidence factor on the weather forecast that it'll be good to use it. Or it's mandatory kit for something like BB200 and I don't intend to use it-only as an emergency coz the sub standard has hit the fan scenario.

[Dan_K]

I'd only consider this for solo overnights with a good forecast or as a backup for a bothy trip.
I'll be using this approach for the capital trail in April but will be looking to stay in bothies really unless the weather is good.
That being said, I've not had a proper look at the route and worked out distances between the bothies...

While Ray is correct in that Bunny's Bothy is 35 miles in, this assumes an Edinburgh start. Depending on where you are, a Peebles start could be more appropriate as it's probably about half the route distance from there to Bunny's. I personally think the best of the riding on the trail is from Bunny's to Peebles anyway.

I was planning on starting from Edinburgh as it's a direct fast train from London and gives me the good return options to maximise my 3/4 days.

[AlasdairMc]

Would a hunka simply be the best option or is there anything with a bit of bug protection?

I find for bug protection in a drawstring bag, the best option is to wear a head net inside the bag with you.

If you can cope with a coffin bag, they give more protection from the elements but you can lose that by having to leave a bit of the bag open for ventilation anyway.

[LSJ]

My opinion on this, and please "bear" with me.

As some might have figured out I work in the Danish Army. Like all other big public institutions, those in Procurement have no clue what the need is. In the old days (4 years ago) we had a decent sleeping bag (at least to minus 5 C), a nice Goretex bivibag, and a good but heavy (has to be ) tarp at the size of 2,40*1,80. One man could easily make a good setup with that (the persron sleeping, boots of and under tarp, bergen under tarp, clothes under tarp, webbing under tarp and weapon too, even 2 man could get under it, if need be (then only boots, clothes and weapon under tarp). I have used this setup for years a (more than I care to think of) all over the world, and probably bivvied in it more than 3 years all put together. Rarely used the goretex bag ,I find if you set up the tarp correct there is no need for bivi bag (elimantes condensation, and letting wet clothes dry/moist evaporate from inside sleeping bag). And in Denmark it rains just as much as on your side of the North sea, and our main exercise terrain is at the coast of the North sea. so windy too always seems to rain sideways there.

Some nice person somewhere decided we needed new kit. I know the person who recommends kit for the troopers (he is a soldier). He then sends the recomendation to procurement (civilians, with some sort of degree in procurement/law/spreadsheet, you know the drill, new public management). Those guys will work the best deals, normally as cheap as possible. But actually not this time.
We now have even more brilliant kit. This is what we have now
Bivi bag http://www.carinthia.eu/bags/en/shop/Bi ... b_content2
sleeping bag summer http://www.carinthia.eu/bags/en/shop/Sl ... 238&list=1
sleeping bag 3 season http://www.carinthia.eu/bags/en/shop/Sl ... 167&list=1
and a silk liner. (silk liner is not good, makes it difficult to get out of bag fast, but brilliant in civy life )
Those 2 bags will make it comfy down to very cold temps, I havent frosen in Afghan mountains or arctic circle yet. All the crap is very bulky, but that is how it is.


But the brainy civilian have now decided, that since we have 300 euros worth of sleeping bags and 549 euro worth of hooped bivibag, We no longer need a 10 euro tarp (save the tenner on 850 euros)..What a mistake (which now have been realised after 4 years of complaining and whining from soldiers )

because as Stu wrote.

It's 10.00pm, you've been riding for 14 hours, you're tired, hungry and to make matters worse it's been raining since tea time. There's no natural shelter available and no buildings, walls, etc. You're only carrying a bivvy bag but it's fully waterproof and capable of being completely sealed up.

How do you get your sleeping bag / mat into the bivvy without getting either wet or water in the bivvy. Then how do you get out of your wet gear, into dry gear without getting your dry stuff wet? Also, you'll recall I said you were hungry, so can you make a brew or cook something?
If it continues to rain throughout the night. Are you able to repeat the procedure in reverse in the morning or are you now past caring about stuff getting wet because you've decided to sack it off and go home? No matter how often I think about this, I can never dream up a decent solution.

It is a misery. There is no way to be dry, there is no way to dry out, there is no shelter for planning. There is no shelter for making a cup of coffe or food, no shelter to do simple tasks (cleaning your self, changes of clothes and so on). It's utter sh1te. Especialy after being out for 3 weeks straight in november


Just using a bivibag is like sitting your self between two chairs. You will sit eventually, but it hurts a lot and is not comfortable!

My opinion on hooped bivibags is now delivered!

Lars

[dingle]

Saw this thread and hoped it would answer the bivvy issue. It seems though I have the same thoughts as a few others. Having said that I have decided to take the plunge and get a bivvy for some overnighters I have planned. if I team it up with a tarp just in case it rains I can still get the both down to combined weight of 1kg or a bit less. Just about half the weight of the tent. Adding the tarp is the only way I can see of managing poor weather. Next question is use a down bag or synthetic.

[Teetosugars]

Next question is use a down bag or synthetic

Down in the summer, Synthetic in winter..( unless of course its Cold dry) then its down for both.

Down packs small and is light, crap when wet tho'
Synthetic is better when wet, but doesn't pack that small..

[dingle]

Just wondering really about the condensation issue. Wanting to keep the gear weight down and my lightest bag is a marmot atom (needs to be above freezing though!!) but don't want to wreck it in the bivvy bag. Thinking one night should be ok. Reading other posts it seems it shouldnt be too bad so long as I keep my head out.

[Mariner]

I have also been giving this much thought over the last couple of weeks ever since I ran across Borah gear from another thread here.
They have a 'super bivy' which eliminates the need for a tarp.
Finally I decided on a set up that includes bivy, tarp and tent.
My tent has been modified so I can pitch as outer only, net inner only or both.
Bivy only is for those balmy summer nights under the stars when the weather is settled and no bugs about - ie hardly ever.
Tarp is the lightweight shelter if using bivy.
Set up is decided before hand so I don't end up carrying everything but will be sleeping bag, bivy bag and tent or tarp.
Bivy only is very very appealing but I think the misery factor cancels that out.