Tour Divide ... thinking out loud.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Been reading the new copy of Cordillera and I can't help but wonder whether this years race is some kind of turning point in the TD. I know not everyone who raced has penned a piece for the book but there's an awful lot that have who seem to tick one, more or all of the boxes below.

Never heard of the TD until they saw 'Cried on the Divide'

Have no background in mountain biking

Have no background in cycling

Have never entered a race before

Have never bikepacked before

Now, non of that is a problem until you look at this years race and the amount of people who took detours, avoided certain bits, scratched and perhaps more importantly, the amount of ill feeling and general grief this seems to have caused ... what with relegations, finger pointing etc.

I can't help but wonder whether the amount of people lining up for the 'TD experience' rather than lining up to race it, will in time become the undoing of the TD ... I really hope not. I also wonder whether some kind of qualifying system like Alan's implemented for the HT might now be a good idea?

Sorry to ramble.

[johnnystorm]

I think Jay Petervary has had similar thoughts.....

[Blackhound]

I rode it just after the TD movie came out and not many were doing it because of the movie, though a few were. I recall (2011) someone saying only 35% would finish as numbers were to big (may have been eventual winner Kurt) and to much inexperience. More than 50% completed SOBO but less than 50% of the NOBO completed and it ended up around the 50% number. I should say a good number of the riders in front of me took shall we say a less dramatic route in NM to my knowledge and one more in CO.

Personally I was not bothered myself as I know I rode the route as proscribed for that year, it was a 10+ year target for me and was just glad I managed to finish. Eventually. I was more bothered about the sections we missed due to record snow falls that winter and was a driver to me going back in 2013. I wanted to ride (or push) up Whitefish Divide, Union Pass, Richmond Peak etc. that I had been riding about for some years.

If I was to ride again - I may do when I am 60 - I would not do a SoBo Grand Depart. It would either be a NoBo attempt despite probably being harder or a would do an ITT starting a later in June.

The character has changed from the early days and even quite a lot since 2011. Most of us would like that feeling back but it is not going to happen unless you go NoBo or ITT. Travelling through last year there was a lot more recognition of the race.

[Chew]

Chris Bennett wrote an article on Bikepacking.net about the 'Spirit of the TD'.

People not understanding the difference between racing and touring (the 28 day rule), not sticking to the route and then moaning when they got relegated on track leaders for doing so, and setting off under there own rule book(well I think that's how it should be done, or I'm not doing that because its hard) rather then following the Bikepacking rule book.

People are getting confused between the Race and Riding the Tour Divide.

Its the same when you take to people about the MTB C2C. A lot of people may have done a C2C, but not a lot of people will have done the C2C.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Didn't Matthew Lee say something along the lines of - he thought the film had ruined the race?

Maybe we live in a world where instant gratification has become the accepted norm, no need for progression and the steady accumulation of experience ... pass your motorbike test one week and ride whatever you like the next, walk up Snowdon on Wednesday and set off up Mont Blanc at the weekend

[Richpips]

We're planning on doing it in 2016, so I've read some, but not all of the discussions on BP.

I find it quite depressing that so many people are that bothered about what someone else has or hasn't done. There are the unsupported rules and a set course and one would hope that people followed both of those. If they don't unless they're in claiming a top spot or record, well I can't say I'm bothered.

It's a race with no entry fee and therefore no entry requirements, so there will be the underprepared, and those who don't really have a clue.

Should these people take part in the "TD experience"? Sure, why not. Some will flounder, and others with no prior who have done the training and done their homework will make it round.

The other thin that irks me is the discussion of a time limit and competitive riders. There are plenty of people who do all sorts of races who are never going to win them. That doesn't mean they are not competing against others or extending their expectations of themselves. I have a couple of friends who are slow runners, yet enjoy their battles at the back of the field.

When my son and I do the TDR we've set a target time (30 days) which is not going to see us on the podium, maybe we'll even finish last. That doesn't mean we won't have tried any less than the person who comes first though.

[Chew]

The conflict on BP.net is from where certain people have done A, but claim they have done B (apart from the armchair contributors)

This then dilutes the efforts of those who actually have done B.

It would be like me lining up at the start of the HTR550, me changing the 'rules' to fit my own requirements, taking shortcuts, staying with friends, etc..., but then getting upset with Alan at the end when he doesn't put my name of the finishers list. Yes I may have done a HTR550, but not the HTR550.

In some ways Matt removing the organisation may be the events downfall?
The issue with people being underprepared and not having a clue, is one day something will happen, someone will get hurt and being the US someones going to get sued.
This is where following the 'sprit of the TD' is important, but some people ignore that and just want their finishing badge, but are less concerned with the long term viability of the event. If something happened next year and the Authorities in Banff decided to act to prevent any future starts that would be a huge shame.

I don't think anyone has any issue with people having the "TD experience", its just theres a difference between touring the route and racing it.
Racing it means following the rules.

Hats off for anyone who does ride the whole route regardless of the time taken.

[Bearbonesnorm]

You don't fit into any of these though Rich.

Never heard of the TD until they saw 'Cried on the Divide'

Have no background in mountain biking

Have no background in cycling

Have never entered a race before

Have never bikepacked before

[Dave42w]

Interesting. I'm reading Cordillera Volume 6 and found it fascinating. It is the first time I have heard of the Tour Divide.

It does seem very different to what I have seen of UK Bikepacking events.

The first obvious difference is the terrain and distance. The Rockies are very different in wildness, remoteness, height and weather to anything we have.

The second is the use of support resources for example the use of hotels/motels, in some cases as the default accommodation. Is this a cultural difference or simply what is available? If Wales had motels instead of bothys would UK Bikepackers use them?

Clearly the Tour Divide would be a very different animal if no participants used hotels/motels.

So what is Bikepacking? http://selfsupporteduk.net/ says "only allows the use of commercial premises for services, food and lodging." Yet I get the impression that riders on the HT550 wouldn't have considered hotels in the spirit of the event. Have the UK and US gone different ways or is it does the terrain/weather/length that change things?

[FLV]

When my son and I do the TDR

Nice.

I'll look forward to following your blue dot mate. I bet it will be great to experience that together

[Richpips]

You don't fit into any of these though Rich.

Yep Stu, I'm arguing on behalf of others. Whilst I strongly agree with Chew saying that this is the route and that should be adhered to etc. and I do like this from the rules "Nothing to win or lose but honor" I do think that some BP posters are trying to create an us and them. Snobbery.

The issue with people being underprepared and not having a clue, is one day something will happen

True. That isn't to say all newbs will end up that way.

There have been instances on the TDR from experienced riders that have landed them in hospital already though.

If something happened next year and the Authorities in Banff decided to act to prevent any future starts that would be a huge shame.

As the race is mostly in the USA, I can't see that happening.

[Richpips]

The second is the use of support resources for example the use of hotels/motels, in some cases as the default accommodation. Is this a cultural difference or simply what is available? If Wales had motels instead of bothys would UK Bikepackers use them?

Clearly the Tour Divide would be a very different animal if no participants used hotels/motels.

So what is Bikepacking? http://selfsupporteduk.net/ says "only allows the use of commercial premises for services, food and lodging." Yet I get the impression that riders on the HT550 wouldn't have considered hotels in the spirit of the event. Have the UK and US gone different ways or is it does the terrain/weather/length that change things?

I and some others stayed in B+Bs on the HTR. It definitely gives no advantage in terms of time in a race. I did enjoy my bath though.

[Richpips]

Nice.

I'll look forward to following your blue dot mate. I bet it will be great to experience that together

Cheers Dave, he's really looking forward to it.

Oh, and looking at last years result we may even not come last. :)

[Bearbonesnorm]

The second is the use of support resources for example the use of hotels/motels, in some cases as the default accommodation. Is this a cultural difference or simply what is available? If Wales had motels instead of bothys would UK Bikepackers use them?

I think some of the differences stem from the length of the race and the terrain.

The UK has plenty of pubs, B&B, etc but getting to them often requires quite a detour, the TD passes through lots of towns so there's more options to use these facilities.

It's easier to avoid the lure of a hot shower and fluffy towels for five days than it is for 25

The mindset also comes in to play a little ... 'racer' or 'rider'. It's not applicable to everyone but generally you'll be quicker by not staying in accommodation.

[slowupslowdown-under]

Would be a shame if the race got canned (sure'll it wont!)

Either way, I'll be in Banff in June 2017 for it!

[Ben98]

I think the problem is, people don't want to race, but they dont want to be on their own, so they sign up for the race so that there are others to ride (tour) with. If that makes any sense?
I have every intention of racing the route in 2016, though my chances of winning are virtually non existent, I am a competitive sod, so I'll give it my all.
The answer I s'pose would be a race (maybe with some qualifying races and a cutoff time) and a mass start whereby it was almost a group ride kind of thing, with different rules to the race, if any rules at all?

[Ian]

Reminds me of this quote, seen earlier in the week: http://instagram.com/p/u_YiSfTL0i/

The outcome is getting to Antelope Wells. The process is following the route AND the rules.

Can't understand why there is any confusion on this

[Dave Barter]

That's brilliant what you are doing Rich. I asked my teenage kids if they wanted to tag along with me and the response was too strong to even video.

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Reminds me a bit of the one time the KIMM/OMM was abandoned mid-race (I think it was 2008), when exceptionally bad weather hit the Lake District. Fortunately the vast majority of the competitors where sufficiently prepared to deal with it, but accusations where still made (by uninformed observers, mostly) and questions asked about whether the event should have been held. An unforeseen weather related event on TDR resulting in mass casualties from unprepared riders could result in the route being closed to riders. I believe the organisers of MTB races in Colorado are regularly in conflict with the authorities over trail access for bikes.

[Cheeky Monkey]

and the response was too strong to even video.

Like father, like son ;-)

[composite]

Reminds me a bit of the one time the KIMM/OMM was abandoned mid-race (I think it was 2008), when exceptionally bad weather hit the Lake District. Fortunately the vast majority of the competitors where sufficiently prepared to deal with it, but accusations where still made (by uninformed observers, mostly) and questions asked about whether the event should have been held. An unforeseen weather related event on TDR resulting in mass casualties from unprepared riders could result in the route being closed to riders. I believe the organisers of MTB races in Colorado are regularly in conflict with the authorities over trail access for bikes.

I was chatting to a guy in work after the BB200 and mentioned my issues with Frost Nip. He asked if I had mentioned this to the organsiers in relation to should the event still be run if conditions were such that something like that could happen. I explained it was really not that kind of event... he seemed to get it in the end.

[Scattamah]

Tuppence from a starter in Banff this year...

I can see the purists point of view - I saw first-hand people detouring and it puzzled me at first then made me angry as I trudged through the snow for hours on end. Whaddya do? Go drag 'em back? No. Race for yourself - it's all you can do.

As the rules (those same rules that drew me to the brute in the first place) clearly state it's a self-policed affair. Yes, it's a shame that not all entrants have the grit to do so, but that's the way it is. The volume of rule benders and the subsequent critics seems to have increased this year. Will it be detrimental to the TD in the long run? Possibly. All one can do is enter and be true to themselves and the rules. It's that simple.

FWIW, I'm one of those dont-race-often kinda types, but that doesn't mean I don't have a competitive streak hidden inside. I entered because I wanted a serious challenge in my life that involved long distances on a bike and a test of my endurance - and by Dog, I got it in spades. Yeah...I've seen the movie, and it's a highly romantic view of a very tough route. I don't cry over it though. ; )

To sum: if the TD stopped tomorrow, I'd still go back for a SoBo ITT. I'd miss the GD in Banff and the atmosphere that goes with it - even this year in the driving rain it was worth being there. I really hope, along with the OP, that it doesn't go away - it's too good to lose.

/me throws tuppence to the OP and gets off his soapbox. To those looking to line up in Banff next year, see you there.

Greetz

S.

[jameso]

Have never entered a race before

'tick'
But I did go through the 'Am I a racer or tourer' process before I decided to line up - as well as a few times along the route. 95% of the time I was a racer. If you line up, you're either ready to race hard or part of the problem perhaps.

re a comment above about 'sooner or later something will go wrong', it did this year, SPOT panic buttons and rescues for one rider that I heard of.

Basically it's the MTB Everest. Many of us want to tick the big one even if it means pulling on a fixed rope and being carried down by a Sherpa. I've climbed and made amateur attempts and summits in the alps, no guide, self-taught with a friend and no wish to use a guide. Why did I then go and race the TDR as a committed non-racer cyclist? Who cares I guess, I had my reasons and whether I did 17 days or 27 mattered little as long as I was all-out and left nothing in me by the finish. So I have sympathy with those saying cut-offs are daft, but I do see the motel-sharing, iphone spot tracking, calling home daily, bunch-riding guys as missing something. Bring back the GDMTBR rules. That's how I really wanted to race and it'd separate the tourers from the racers. It'd be no change at the front, all change at the back.

[Ian]

Bring back the GDMTBR rules

How do they differ from the current ones?

[Bearbonesnorm]

How do they differ from the current ones?

No tracking and no communications with the 'outside' ... use a mobile device for whatever reason and you're DNF.