Yeah yeah , covered a thousand times .... you can't search for "bivvy" on here ...

Thoughts please on the subject of minimum useful tarp size?
After our SWWB "adventure" I've seen the usefulness of a decent bivvy bag ( thinking SD Backcountry Bivvy or on John Climbers recommendations maybe the Alpkit Kloke .... are there others to consider?) but also think some sort of tarp arrangement to partially wrap around the head area to protect the head opening from inclement weather might be necessary.
Having a bike with you presumably provides something to secure it off too? maybe a sort of C shape under the shoulders, up and around the head but with the majority of the bivvy doing the protecting.... or is this a terrible idea and just way better off with a bigger 3x3 tarp for the added space/cover.
Or just stick with the Lunar Solo?

Ah the BB version of "how long is a piece of string?"

I've a 2.5m x 1.5m DCF tarp and it's probably about as small as you'd want with enough room to also have your kit under cover and to be able to cook, sit up, etc.

A lot does depend on the pitch - I've settled on the Asymmetric Holden, I've posted shots of it before, uses a single pole to the front and a lifter tied back to the bike's handlebars at the back. Being an asymmetric pitch means that when you sit up, the pole isn't smack in the middle of the opening. I do use it with a lightweight bivvy bag just for condensation issues.

Pretty much exactly the same as what Whitestone said, mine's a DD Hammocks Superlight Tarp S.

A few people on here have tried the proper bivvy bag and small tarp set up, but....
The bivvy bag gets wet so condensation can be an issue
If it's really wild you still get wet
A proper waterproof bivvy plus small tarp will weigh more than a say a borah lightweight bivvy, flat tarp, carbon pole and pegs.
On balance my view is a borah style bivvy and a flat tarp are still more versatile and you can sit up under the tarp.



A wild night near Braemar. I'd deliberately pitched on an exposed spot as the wind was dropping and the midges were out. 10 minutes later the wind got up, the rain came on and it got quite exciting at one point. But, I was pretty much dry and slept OK. Ideally I'd have used the Deschutes, or bivvied in the woods! This set up weighs 600g's (bivvy bag, tarp, pole and pegs)


Another night where I pitched up in an exposed spot to avoid midges only to get rain and wind. This is my Wildsky gear DCF tarp, total weight is 500gs I've used it in a lot of rain and a lot of wind, just not in combination. It's a bit noisy but the weight and size is very appealing

I would generally take the Deschutes if I knew it was going to be wild.

Horses for courses an all that.

Thanks for these replies... I know it's nearly all personal preferences.
I'm not sure when I would choose to use a bivvy over using the Lunar Solo, unless I was going to sleep in a shelter of some kind where it was impractical to put the tent up, and maybe carrying a bivvy would open this option up more.
The "Asymmetrical Holden" looks like a fairly smart setup.
So the Deschutes is a Solo without the inner... as the inner takes no more putting up than the Deschutes, I'm not sure why I'd opt for that & a bivvy over the Solo...

It's an interesting one. I haven't applied a lot of thought to it but SWWB's curcumstances felt like a unique one in my history of kipping out. We were in a ready-made shelter so no need for a tarp/etc but it was open-sided and the amount of wind-blown rain meant my water-resistant Drishell sleeping bag wasn't really up to the job of coping with it for once. Maybe for one night, but not another after being packed wet for a day.

Heavy rain sleeping outside: my sleeping bag and 8 x 10 tarp have never let me down.

Not quite so heavy rain: the Gatewood is fine. Survives even in heavy rain TBH.

No rain: just the sleeping bag, no point having a shelter. Good for 'stealth'.

Heavy rain and sleeping 'inside' (shed, veranda, boat, cave....): no point with a shelter either.

So other than maybe in a 'stealth with rain' situation I've never seen the point of a bivvy bag. But getting changed in that situation you'll get soaked so I don't see it as an option.

But last week got me thinking. I can't bring myself to add another piece of sleeping gear to the armoury so I'm going to cheat and ask Santa to bring me a TN Moonlite to experiment with. This is not really a full bivvy bag (*) but it is "fully waterproof and very breathable" and will keep 7/8ths of you dry (mesh face cover, so possibly 31/32nds if inverted). It's also only 180g, a big plus point.

(*) so I'm still sticking with my I-don't-see-the-point-of-a-bivvybag proclamation .

If paired with my 9 x 7 (oh go on then: 2.75m x 2.15m) DCF tarp at 195g, plus a 45g pole and a few pegs that's well under 500g. That sized tarp is easily liveable in rain anyway but in heavy rain it would be nice to protect the sleeping bag bottom half outside the tarp.

Or indeed just on its own in a SWWB situation.

I'm overthinking this! I blame you Martin for starting it

The hardest bit is that all my combos of available gear present quite a complex Venn diagram of options versus situations, with lots of overlapping, so the choice of combo to take is going to use up more time than the actual outing.....

Maybe, every outing, take all of 8 x 10 tarp, 9 x 7 tarp, Gatewood, Moonlite, with a total still less than 1.2kg and pick one, or a combo, at random each time.....

RIP wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:15 pm

This is where I am Reg, and I blame you ! The Mutual Blame Society !
I just go round and round .... patently SWWB Friday night the Lunar Solo was NEVER an option, not in that specific (and potentially unique ) situation.
I said to you there that given the option of sleeping in a bothy alone, I'd MUCH sooner sleep alone outside the bothy in the tent, and feel infinitely safer!
A bird hide ... tent not an option but a bivvy bag (just to keep the sleeping bag clean if nothing else ) would be great ... not that we've any bird hides around here...
But am I genuinely likely to sleep in a church foyer, or a bird hide or a dry cave? , Not on my own for sure ! But with company? It's a possibility, especially if Reg / Verena / Sean / other foolhardy souls are involved! And more so if I've forked out on a bivvy to enable such lunacy.

I could just keep hold of my money.

Or I could just buy a bivvy.

But then would I need a tarp .....

And so it goes round.....

As frequently happens, I didn't seem to answer the question, just dissed b'bags .

"What sized tarp with b'bag?". You could have a small one that just kept the rain off your head/chest once you were installed in your bag. But unless you were some sort of expert contortionist I can't see how that would keep you dry when changing before/after in rain. Maybe you change so fast it doesn't matter. But if you're wet after changing, what's the point of trying to then keep just your head dry overnight.

With a slightly bigger tarp you get a dry head overnight and changing/cooking room.

So I'd have a 9 x 7 / 2.75 x 2.1, which is handy because I've already got the 200g DCF one. Minimum 6 x 4 / 1.8 x 1.3 with 50cm rear lifter for headroom?

Have a go with a Bear Pit and see if it works for you : https://www.bearbonesbikepacking.co. ... tarp/

Hmm.

1.5m x 2.5m is probably about as small as you really want to go but (always a but) some will depend on on what or whether you employ a bivvy bag with it. I love flat tarps but increasingly found myself using a Gatewood cape which didn't really weigh any more and can be pitched quickly / easily even with limited space.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:12 pm I love flat tarps but increasingly found myself using a Gatewood cape which didn't really weigh any more and can be pitched quickly / easily even with limited space.

Agreed and same here but the tarp mystique keeps drawing me back and I'm powerless to resist .

This is a 2 x 1.5m, I used to take it as a minimal option for bad weather with the bivi being the choice when it was dry. I've used it in torrential rain a few times and while it wasn't great coverage it was ok with a bivi bag. OK for racing, passable for touring. The lower 1/4 tended to get wind-blown rain on it. I've been caught out by poor weather guesswork too many times though and putting a tarp up at 2am in the drizzle isn't fun, so now I use a Gatewood as a good all-round option. I don't think I need a bivi bag with that but I to take one as 1) now have a quilt and want to keep drafts out 2) I still prefer to bivi on clear nights. Weight-wise it's no issue to have a 180-200g bivi bag and at 6' the foot end of the bag will get some condensation from the Gatewood sides anyway. A weight gain for flexibility, like the 2 x 1.5m tarp was about 150-200g added for flexibility.

the tarp mystique keeps drawing me back

- same here.. I watched too many episodes of Ray Mears But the consistency of something like a Gatewood is appreciated.

The only thing I can add is that I have learnt to always carry a lightweight bivvy bag with me, whatever other shelter I may be carrying, when I am out with our Reg. You really never do know where you might end up....

Calling Vegancheese to the forum, with his "g-string" tarp......

Polisherman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:20 pm Calling Vegancheese to the forum, with his "g-string" tarp......

Sounds like my G-spot tarp - guaranteed an exciting night

RIP wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 3:53 pm

Polisherman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:20 pm Calling Vegancheese to the forum, with his "g-string" tarp......

Sounds like my G-spot tarp - guaranteed an exciting night

Less chafing than a g-string hammock though, yeah?

So long as you can find it in the dark, yes....

Very happy with my Bear Pit tarp overy Sierra Designs bivi bag set up (see reviews)
But if the forecast was prolonged rain then it's either the Six Moons Luna Solo or the Weirdos on bikes shaped tarp for me

Peter Stringfellow had more material in his underpants, but it keeps the rain off your head.
Going_to_rain by dear_jim, on Flickr

vegancheese wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2024 7:47 pm Peter Stringfellow had more material in his underpants, but it keeps the rain off your head.
Going_to_rain by dear_jim, on Flickr

Yeah, that’s small could be fun in heavy rain I guess

RIP wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:15 pm Not quite so heavy rain: the Gatewood is fine. Survives even in heavy rain TBH.

Cath did a bivy earlier this year in an absolute hoolie in the Gatewood and it was fine - that's with BB carbon fibre pegs and an MSR style Groundhog for the main front guy. (pyra)Mid style shelters are by their nature pretty resilient to wind. For 300g (which is the same as an Alpkit R-i-g3.5) it's hard to beat. Only downside is it's now nearly £200 The Deschutes is slightly bigger in width and height with about 25% more floor space.

• Gatewood - 300g
• Peg and poles - 100g (I think)
• Borah Gear lightweight bivy bag - 170g

I'd be happy with that in most conditions short of swirling spindrift snow, so pretty much most conditions you are likely to get south of the border. It's flexible too: get a lean-to or shed and you can skip the Gatewood and just use the bivy bag.

Edit:

so I'm going to cheat and ask Santa to bring me a TN Moonlite to experiment with. This is not really a full bivvy bag (*) but it is "fully waterproof and very breathable" and will keep 7/8ths of you dry (mesh face cover, so possibly 31/32nds if inverted). It's also only 180g, a big plus point.

Just looked up the Moonlite - basically looks very similar to the standard Borah Gear lightweight bivy bag https://borahgear.com/ultralightbivy.html. Ours have a letterbox style noseeum slot rather than the whole top quarter of the upper being noseeum. John used to do this as a standard no-charge modification but not sure if he still does. I can't remember what size we ordered but they are the same width/girth as the Alpkit Hunka XL and can use 7.5cm thick inflatable pad and winter rated bag inside it.

I made 1 of these a few years ago. I think I made it 10% bigger!

https://oldieoutdoors.wordpress.com/201 ... icro-tarp/