GCN - You’ll never see the world in the same way again

[voodoo_simon]

https://youtu.be/-_4GZnGl55c?si=R5icuMrmETT3Ki-E

Interesting video on driver/cyclist/pedestrian culture

Warning - It may be triggering though

[RIP]

Yep - remember That Woman's "great car economy"...

People never see the irony of sitting in a traffic jam whilst complaining about traffic jams holding them up.... our town's gridlocked on Saturday mornings but none of the drivers seem capable of thinking outside the box... their metal box that is. Brainwashed?

Horses for courses... sometimes cars are the right answer for a journey... but 200 yards for a newspaper? Horse might be better .

Good thread, nothing like a good rant on a Cheery Friday .

[voodoo_simon]

People never see the irony of sitting in a traffic jam whilst complaining about traffic jams holding them up....

Once suggested to a member of staff who kept using “I was stuck in traffic…” for being late that perhaps “they were traffic!” Got rather blank look back

Horses for courses... sometimes cars are the right answer for a journey... but 200 yards for a newspaper?

My great Uncle spent all his life driving about 300m to the local shops everyday for his paper, never walked anywhere if he didn’t have to. Even had two cars (none fancy but both new) on the drive, one for my aunty who didn’t drive (that’s not a typo) and one for him.

Anyways, during lockdown the government suggested half hour walks and he took it as gospel, so he took walking 30 minutes a day (bearing in mind he was in his late 80s at the time and it was 30C outside etc).

Once lockdown finished, he sacked off walking and drive everywhere… The mind boggles

[fatbikephil]

Hmm. I'm pleased to say that none of that was a surprise to me, having dealt with the issue for the last 30 years and entirely failed to solve it. The psychologists comments about how to solve the problem have all been tried...

We told people that doing 30minutes of moderate exercise a day (i.e. walking) would reduce the chances of dying of coronary heart disease (and a whole load of other things) by 50% - most people weren't interested.

We told the government the solution to the NHS crisis was to get the nation more active - they did listen but did very little about it.

We told governments to stop allowing development away from existing communities and services - they ignored us (and actually made it easier to develop away from towns)

We've been trying to re-design our street network but everytime anything is proposed that is perceived to impact parking capacity or journey times, we get knocked back.

The problem is actually democracy - as long as the majority of people want things done to make car travel easier, that's what will happen.

I nominate Reg for Tinpot Dictator

[RIP]

Do dictators get nominated I wonder? . As mentioned some while ago my entirely reasonable plan for town roads is a blanket 10mph limit, no signs or lines or markings at all, no kerbs, no street furniture, nobody has 'priority' anywhere, and there's only one rule to remember: if there's a contretemps of any sort the slower of the users is always innocent. Very simple to understand and very cheap to maintain. Problem solved .

[fatbikephil]

Further rumination - surely (surly / shurely) if you gave people an option to avoid shelling out 30k for a total liability (aka a car) they would jump at the chance....
*sigh*
Nah Reg, keep the motors oot of the Town centre full stop. That's what they Dutch do and it seems to work. Worth noting that Holland has a fab road network as well as tram / bus bike. They did engage the Germans to do some re-development in the '40's though, which we tried to do but failed

[Lazarus]

Did not change my world view as I allready knew most people were thick and how dangerous cars were

[redefined_cycles]

On the topic of 'slowest user has right of way'. I recall doing my driver training course (to become an instructor) and remember seeing something along them lines in the highway code. ie. pedestrians always have right of way (can't recall where that stopped but definitely in built up areas).

So at a pedestrian crossing the car is meant to stop for the pedestrian. Rarely happens but I tend to try and just jump on the crossing without standing and waiting for traffic to come to a halt. They soon get the message though probably not too impressed. That's in relation to pelican/zebra tryoe crossings btw. On normal traffic ligh type crossings I'm more aware that the system is obviously designed to show the driver they are the priority.

Sad situation, but in the words of a famous/smart person (paraphrased), "the answer in not to do nothing". Maybe a few drivers need to be taken hostage by some newly formed cycling/walkers cult (just kidding ). That way maybe the government might staring taking things more seriously.

Very sorry situation we live in, but it's much much worse in many other (so called) less developed countries. I always try to refuse to use them stick thin cycle lanes and a bright rear light helps. Media corporations have a big part to play in keeping the public stupid and 'non-thinking'. Same way they do for the current genocides and previous atrocities against certain sections of society.

[Dave Barter]

I see some shoots of positivity but they are very very small and need time to grow. I lived in London in the 80s and it was almost impossible to cycle safely. Things have changed there and it is starting to (reluctantly) become part of everyday that bikes and cars share the roads. Motorists are losing the battle slowly as ulez and cycle lanes hammer them out. This is a slow war of attrition that I hope we will win. Last visit to the smoke stunned me with just how many cyclists there were compared to Devon where I am the only one.

I live in hope as the Netherlands in 1975 looked similar

[RIP]

We'll almost be there when:

a/ a "car accident" becomes referred to as a "car crash" the same as for every other mode of transport. Apparently at the moment drivers have "accidents" not "crashes".

and when:

b/ people say "the driver knocked the pedestrian over" instead of "the car knocked the pedestrian over", in the same way that it's currently always "the cyclist knocked the pedestrian over".

in fact a/ should be a "driver crash" too.

As long as it''s the fault of "the car" and not "the driver" justice will not be done.

[fatbikephil]

We'll almost be there when:

a/ a "car accident" becomes referred to as a "car crash" the same as for every other mode of transport. Apparently at the moment drivers have "accidents" not "crashes".

and when:

b/ people say "the driver knocked the pedestrian over" instead of "the car knocked the pedestrian over", in the same way that it's currently always "the cyclist knocked the pedestrian over".

in fact a/ should be a "driver crash" too.

As long as it''s the fault of "the car" and not "the driver" justice will not be done.

For us road safety engineers, it's always been a crash or collision on the basis that there is always someone at fault. 8 years of crash investigation and only one fatal I would ascribe to sh*t happens. This made the press a few years ago and 'crash' or 'collision' was being touted as the term of reference for all press articles relating to such things.

Who knows what difference it would make. However on an amusing note, two scrotes did over the RBS in Kirkcaldy a number of years ago and got clean away, on bicycles. Press article - "cyclists rob RBS and get away" ho ho. Prognosis was that the cash had a dye bomb so it could never be spent and in a break with tradition, the perps didn't brag about it and so get caught

[redefined_cycles]

Never really thought about it as crash or accident. But in the NHS we still refer to them as accident (RTA). Car v pedestrian and wording like that!

[MuddyPete]

Motonormativity - Time to think outside the (metal) box...

Good report: has anyone stuck it on Pistonheads?

[redefined_cycles]

We have a few really really wide road-mouths near us. Always annoying trying to keep the kids safe when walking near/across them. After watching that vid it really made more sense.

Hopefully this vid will get shared far and wide. In terms of PistonHeads (not a member but do check it out sometimes) I've never found it to be a cycle-hate culture. So maybe someone that's a member could pop it on. I'd have posted it on Lexus forum but after a recent thread I realised they're not (generally) as savoury as I once assumed/thought.

[fatbikephil]

We have a few really really wide road-mouths near us. Always annoying trying to keep the kids safe when walking near/across them. After watching that vid it really made more sense.

Squeezing junction bellmouths is a thing (and Designing Streets guidance requires you to square them off as much as possible in new residential areas) however the problem is that junctions have to be accessible by all classes of vehicle. There is wiggle room on this (so to speak) but bus access is the clincher, as well as bin lorries and John Lewis delivery lorries so you are often limited, particularly when one street joins another at an acute angle...

Here endeth the roads design lecture....

Thinking about it though, junction layout isn't the problem, it's driver attitude. The new Highway code rules state that drivers should give way to peds at junctions so width shouldn't be an issue. But try walking out in front of a left or right turning car! Worse - when I try to give way to peds at junctions etc. when I'm driving, they look at you as if you are mad...

[RIP]

The new Highway code rules state that drivers should give way to peds at junctions

In the best Michael Caine tradition "not a lot of people know that" (no, he never said it).

Always good to hear your "expert viewpoint" on this stuff Phil, keep it coming

[redefined_cycles]

Phil, the issue I have around here is not getting rear ended whilst wanting to give a pedestrian way. Though I do always try my best to keep em (pedestrians not cars) moving. That highway code rule, I'm not sure if it's the same as the one I learnt when becoming a driving instructor in about 2010 (didn't finish and ended up in NHS instead).

Regards the respiratory consultant/professor that was involved in the Born In Bradford study. When they found the amount of pollution and lung disease caused by cars, hw sold up his car/cars and now goes everywhere via push bike. Some people are just legendary in their outlook and inspiration.

In other news, I've booked myself into a Sheffield shift for just a few moments this week. I'll hopefully be going via bike... mountain bike (smiling face could go here).