Catching fly campers! *update*

[summittoppler]

We've all seen the pictures on the net of the rise of the so called 'fly campers'. I know it boils everyone's pi$$ as we feel it could have an affect on the things we love to do.
Well this morning I confronted 3 fly campers following a night out on Wales's big hill, Snowdon.

I'll start at the beginning.....
After a day at work and realising I wouldn't make it out for the Solstice on the 21st, I thought I'd get out on Friday night. So a 40 minute drive to the car park at the start of the Rangers path up Snowdon.
I wasn't on my usual bike of choice as it needs a bit of work doing before next weekends Jennride, so I was on the Bucksaw with a small rucksack with kit.
20210618_183321 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

Onwards and upwards on the newly surfaced gravel path to the bottom of the zig zags where I was making a right past Llyn Ffynnon y Gaws.
20210618_192030 by Jeff Price, on Flickr
20210618_190804 by Jeff Price, on Flickr
On my approach I went past a large tent with young lads outside faffing with a fire/BBQ. I said my hello and went on by up to Cwm Clogwn where I pitched my tarp just above Llyn Nadroedd.
IMG_20210619_063558_011 by Jeff Price, on Flickr
It was a great spot looking towards the setting sun and looking the opposite direction up to the summit building were people flocked through the evening.
20210618_212601 by Jeff Price, on Flickr
20210618_195720 by Jeff Price, on Flickr
A good nights sleep was had despite a few loud shouts from the young un's 1 km away as they got excited hearing their echo!
The morning cloud lowered a little as I made an early back up so I could get off the hill before 9am (Voluntary ban exists).
20210619_065518 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

This is were it changed....
As I was making my way down back towards where the lads where, I noticed them walking away from their campspot.
Hmm, I thought? What are the chances of them leaving no trace......

You can see where their tent was
20210619_085347 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

Bin bag filled with cr@p
20210619_085336 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

BBQ
20210619_085356 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

Not even semi skinned!
20210619_085405 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

So I was pretty peed off by this point. I was on the bike so couldn't take it with me. I thought I'll soon catch them up on the way down.....

Sadly I didn't see 3 young lads walking down as I made my way down past the hords on their way up the hill.
However as I got to the car park, we had 3 lads, 3 very big rucksacks and looked like they'd just been out.
"Did you have a good night" I asked.
"yeah it was ace. Did you ride past us last night?"
"yes I did" I replied.
I went on "By the way, you seemed to have left a bin bag full of sh!te hidden behind a large boulder along with others bits of what you carried up"
They turned and looked at each other in shock/amazement.
"Do everyone a favour lads and get your ar$es back up there and carry your waste down. We don't have the bin men emptying the mountainside every Tuesday like back home you know!" I said.
"Mine are down on a Wednesday" said the lad with his top off laying on the ground with a smirk on his face.
"Don't get funny with me pal" I sternly said in my dad/tutor/bricklayer tone!
One of them apologised and said he'll go back and collect them.
I went on "Well if you don't, I'll be giving the Warden a photo of your reg plate and you can deal with them as it's littering!"
Blar blar blar of me telling them to respect the outdoors and that they had carried the stuff up there and that they had just left it for the seagulls to spread everywhere.
There was a good audience too but no one else intervened.
I stopped off at Beddgelert where I reported them at the Wardens office.
20210619_101848 by Jeff Price, on Flickr

I'm hoping that one of them did make his way back up and has now got another thought process for the next time they go out. Like I say though, I'm hoping.......
Education is needed desperately for these idiots. Personally I think it should start in the chav outdoor stores

I should add, there were too many witnesses to wrap a front wheel round their heads!!

[Robster]

Good on ya!

Along the same lines, I emailed Wiggle as they sent an email called actively sustainable but their ad on Facebook showed fires on a grass headland etc. So complained and mentioned leave no trace and scaring the landscape.

They did reply...

Hi Rob,
Thanks for contacting us.
Your feedback here is most appreciated and we will take this on board and raise with the appropriate teams.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, we really appreciate it.
Kind Regards,
Emi H
Customer Services

Will it work? Who knows but it’s worth a try.

[fatbikephil]

Well done Jeff!

[RIP]

Nice one Jeff. Do be careful though mate - we don't want you ending up in a binbag after they take umbrage at your remonstrations . Bit unlikely in a car park admittedly, but you never know with these types.

They probably thought they were doing everyone a good turn by packing all their crap away tidily in a binbag . After all, that's what we're all told to do at home .

Ho hum. And so it goes on.

[summittoppler]

Nice one Jeff. Do be careful though mate - we don't want you ending up in a binbag after they take umbrage at your remonstrations . Bit unlikely in a car park admittedly, but you never know with these types

Everyone should approach these types imo. I wasn't arsed if it was to be just us 20feet from the camp spot or in the carpark.
Weigh up the situation if need be prior to a rant and let them have it.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Everyone should approach these types imo.

Totally agree Jeff. The more people who openly confront idiots - especially with an audience, then the sooner there'll be less idiots doing the sh1t that idiots do. Ooh and yes, Go-Indoors and Mountain Whorehouse could certainly help get the LNT message across at point of sale.

[summittoppler]

Everyone should approach these types imo.

Ooh and yes, Go-Indoors and Mountain Whorehouse could certainly help get the LNT message across at point of sale.

Thats got me thinking, why don't we ALL send an email to the powers that be in these companies explaining this. Obviously with the negative impact it would have on their dividends....

[woodsmith]

I'm afraid you're confusing a lack of knowledge of LNT principles with a group of people who just don't give a f##k.
These people aren't inadvertentley breaking LNT principles ( using washing up liquid in a stream etc) , they are deliberately dumping their rubbish on a mountainside. I agree that retailers should be doing more to educate people and manfacturers should stop promoting their wares with the aid of cosy camp fire photoshoots but the only thing which is going to modify some people's behaviour is large fines/lengthy and inconvenient community service.

[summittoppler]

I'm afraid you're confusing a lack of knowledge of LNT principles with a group of people who just don't give a f##k...

Thats just it, these 'types' are unaware of the LNT, therefore they need educating on it.
So manufacturers/brands/stores should start from the bloody start.
A simple leaflet on a sale for example could have the simple information needed to relay the message. If its just one then its a positive...

[Bearbonesnorm]

I believe there are a number of different types of people now venturing into the hills who previously wouldn't have. You have those who are simply ignorant and who believe that making a fire or BBQ is the accepted norm. These people could quite easily be educated and brought into the fold.

Then, you have those who don't give a fuk. These people will happily drop litter and eject it from their car window without a second thought. It's their natural behaviour, so doing the same up Snowden or on the beach is almost to be expected. It can be easy to say, FFS everyone knows you don't simply throw your sh1t on the floor but in truth, not everyone does. You only need walk down the average city street or stop in any lay-by to see that for many, littering is their default position. Perhaps again, it is a matter of education but that should have begun much earlier at home and school as children ... how many here would have dared to throw sweet wrappers on the floor as kids? Can someone in their 20's / 30's who sees litter as an everyday thing and who was never taught the principles of respect* be expected to change? I dunno one way or the other but I do believe that it may take something more threatening.

* Yes, it is respect. Respect for others, themselves and the world at large.

[jam bo]

The bit I don’t get, is why go to the bother of bagging it up, and then leave it?

[Bearbonesnorm]

The bit I don’t get, is why go to the bother of bagging it up, and then leave it?

Maybe laziness? If it was full of bottles, it'd be heavy. If it had food waste in, it'd be messy ... some people will 'do their bit' until that point where it becomes effort, hard work or inconvenient.

[slarge]

The bit I don’t get, is why go to the bother of bagging it up, and then leave it?

It's the same people who bag their rubbish up and lob it out of the car window - normally their lunch rubbish of collection from the car. Why they can't stick it in their wheelie bin when they get home I have no idea, but I suspect it is largely ignorance and a huge dollop of "couldn't give a f*k" as above.

Well done Jeff - I would have been very very tempted to go back up the hill with them and watch them carry the rubbish back down (and put it in their car).

[summittoppler]

I've asked the Wardens (via social media) if the rubbish was gone or did they pick it up as they passed through later that day. Will be interesting to know whether the lads went back for it or not.....
I'll post on here once I find out.

[boxelder]

Must have been the day for it........ Drove along Crummock to drop my daughter and work and there were a couple camped on the point at Rannerdale Knotts (if anyone's familiar). It's a really popular viewpoint and folk swim from it - even the tour buses stop there for the photo opps. Anyway, couple with tent, camp table and chairs out, stuff all over the grass cooking an omelette. On the way back past I stopped and explained it was NT land and no camping allowed - "Oh, are you sure? We didn't realise"......"Well it's explained on that sign there". "Sorry, we'll just finish lunch and then clear away" I suggested they pack the tent away now so they don't get done for Heinous Dickwittery.

I've decided I'll pleasantly challenge this wherever I see it over summer. I genuinely don't think some realise. Don't want to be a NIMBY, but the authorities are overrun.

[slarge]

I've asked the Wardens (via social media) if the rubbish was gone or did they pick it up as they passed through later that day. Will be interesting to know whether the lads went back for it or not.....
I'll post on here once I find out.

My BiL is one of the Snowdon rangers/wardens (he doesn't like being called a ranger - he thinks that rangers wear masks and have a sidekick called Tonto). He says the flycamping around Snowdon at the moment is a massive problem but they are powerless to move people on, and the police are under resourced to patrol and move people. Let me know if you don't get a response (I think Snowdon itself is his patch).

[Bearbonesnorm]

but they are powerless to move people on

Wonder why that is? I assumed they were agents of the landowner ... or could certainly pretend to be quite convincingly.

[boxelder]

Wonder why that is? I assumed they were agents of the landowner ... or could certainly pretend to be quite convincingly.

My understanding is that they they can request people to move on, after which it becomes an offence, but then it relies on the Police to attend and fine/charge - which obviously is unlikely to happen.
At the height of lockdown, the were campers in the NT woods at Buttermere - they spat at volunteers who approached and were then verbally abusive to the Police, when they did arrive.

[woodsmith]

they are powerless to move people on,
[/quote]

Makes me wonder what powers they do have. Park Rangers in the US have basicly the same powers as the Police .

[Lazarus]

Its a civil offence not a criminal one so the police have very very limited powers.
They need to get a court order to move the folk on - remeer all the stuff on the forum re travellers and wanting to change the law

[anagallis_arvensis]

Well done op, top work!!

[slarge]

but they are powerless to move people on

Wonder why that is? I assumed they were agents of the landowner ... or could certainly pretend to be quite convincingly.

They can ask people to move on - but when faced with aggression or abuse it isn't always wise without police backup - which just isn't available.
So I think the best course of action is the one taken by Bournemouth beach volunteers when faced with a flycamping problem - wake them up every hour through the night. They soon move on when they can't get enough sleep......

[boxelder]

remember all the stuff on the forum re travellers and wanting to change the law

Absolutely - watch what you wish for...........

[nevango06]

Alpha move mate!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Absolutely - watch what you wish for...........

I can't help thinking a change will be much more likely if bell-ends such as these are left to continue. Laws have a nasty habit of beating everyone with the same stick and it's often the 'innocent bystander' who gets hit hardest.

I suppose I look at this through 'reasonable' eyes in that I'd view a NP ranger as an agent of the landowner and therefor, if asked to move on ... I'd move on. Same if it were a NRW or FC ranger and I was flattening their turf.