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Due to a combination of pandemic and Brexit red tape, I'm not sure we'd notice for a while if they actively boycotted as well.ScotRoutes wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:18 pm And how would we feel if folk in other countries were boycotting our goods and services?
Both the Royal Family and the RAF Red Arrows are/have been used to promote British weapons manufacturers.Dave Barter wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:58 pm Am I correct in thinking that we allow arms exports rather than actively sell?
I think you're probably correct insofar as it's private companies selling the goods, but aided and abetted by the government who licence the manufacture and export, promote it with trade envoys, ministers at trade shows, access to "the right people", and generally make it as easy as possible for arms producers here to make a fast buck out of people's misery pretty much anywhere else, all in the name of "economic growth."Dave Barter wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:58 pm Am I correct in thinking that we allow arms exports rather than actively sell?
I asked the question not as a defence of the government but a question because I was thinking “who do we buy from in order to sell or do we directly fund manufacturing”.thenorthwind wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:23 pmI think you're probably correct insofar as it's private companies selling the goods, but aided and abetted by the government who licence the manufacture and export, promote it with trade envoys, ministers at trade shows, access to "the right people", and generally make it as easy as possible for arms producers here to make a fast buck out of people's misery pretty much anywhere else, all in the name of "economic growth."Dave Barter wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:58 pm Am I correct in thinking that we allow arms exports rather than actively sell?
When I read more about China's HR abuses (long history, Uyghur genocide goes back 20yrs, plus Tibet) or the covert influence of the UK and USA etc.. I start to think small and local. Globalisation reeks of power abuses. Buy a steel bike from your local framebuilder if ethics and impact are a priority, shop local, etc.we gotta start from somewhere
I read something the other day ... I can't remember the exact figures so I've based this on a population of 54 million which is roughly everyone over 18. Anyway, if each of us spent £5 a week shopping local, using local suppliers, etc. That would be 270 million per week, over a year, that's quite an amount.When I read more about China's HR abuses (long history, Uyghur genocide goes back 20yrs, plus Tibet) or the covert influence of the UK and USA etc.. I start to think small and local. Globalisation reeks of power abuses. Buy a steel bike from your local framebuilder if ethics and impact are a priority, shop local, etc.
I don't disagree with this. I'm a firm believer in globalisation so obvs should be burned at the stake. If China lost its trade many many ordinary Chinese people would suffer. The answer is to change the system globally not practice protectionism. Please don't ask me how this is achieved practically.Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 6:52 pm Maybe it would be more effective to dedicate an equivalent amount of time and energy that it would take to do this (possibly) ineffective boycotting and instead use it to support an NGO or some other pressure group?
Just an idea and not preaching. I understand and generally agree that boycotting MiC goods is likely to be so infinitesimally small a thing that it's probably not going to matter. However, if it makes you feel better - crack on
You could do both : )Cheeky Monkey wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 6:52 pm Maybe it would be more effective to dedicate an equivalent amount of time and energy that it would take to do this (possibly) ineffective boycotting and instead use it to support an NGO or some other pressure group?
Just an idea and not preaching. I understand and generally agree that boycotting MiC goods is likely to be so infinitesimally small a thing that it's probably not going to matter. However, if it makes you feel better - crack on
Same here in fact. The more interlinked we all are the more I'd hope we see the importance of co-operation etc.I'm a firm believer in globalisation
Or fork all defence business into the space race.tobasco wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:30 pm Difficult for UK to adopt the moral high ground, given our history.
I reckon likely impossible for UK to be wholly self sufficient without standard of living dropping below what electorate would stomach.
I’m a supporter of globalisation, how about UK tries to lead by example - cut arms sales/manufacture would be a good start.
Totally. Why ruin only one planet then there’s a whole universe to be exploitedDave Barter wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:40 amOr fork all defence business into the space race.tobasco wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 9:30 pm Difficult for UK to adopt the moral high ground, given our history.
I reckon likely impossible for UK to be wholly self sufficient without standard of living dropping below what electorate would stomach.
I’m a supporter of globalisation, how about UK tries to lead by example - cut arms sales/manufacture would be a good start.
Username checks out...lune ranger wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:14 am Totally. Why ruin only one planet then there’s a whole universe to be exploited
Not sure if it's govt owned but apparently making drones and other arsenel to ensure annihilation of the Palestinians. A group called Palestine Action (I believe) have managed to scale the building and it's been shut down for 6 days it appears. Police aren't allowing food and drink to be let through to the protesters (2 on the roof). Whilst they are up there it would appear operations are on hold...
It's hard to work in advertising and have second thoughts about capitalism. I've been here more times than I can count. And yet, the answer doesn't seem as simple as ‘burn the whole thing down’. We can get to more nuance, but that starts with inner work.
Capitalism isn't evil, but it's a tool. Tools get co-opted by bad actors. And bad ideas are often good ideas taken too far. We are now seeing new and more sustainable versions of a ‘more ok capitalism’. I hope they grow in scale and influence.
But my version of ‘ok capitalism’ is different than yours, because my values may be different too. This is ok. It's necessary. It's how we keep discussing the true nature of progress. And it's how we make career choices that may feel more ethical to us too. Knowing those values opens a diagnosis, and hints at a strategy. The rest is tactics.
The great mistake of moral philosophy? To assume there are ultimate answers, and if only everyone followed them. Reality is messier than that. There are infinite answers, to fit infinite ways to structure our lives. Sure, there are very wrong answers we can all agree on. But if we work out what we value first, the rest can start following.
I value compassion, clarity of thought and creativity. These things give my life more meaning. So my version of ‘ok capitalism’ needs them. They shape my behaviours at work, where my career could go next, and who I won't work for, or on behalf of.
Will this save the world? I don't know. Does it give me a useful template to keep chipping away at trying to live in a more net positive way? It does. And it's something I can keep evolving over the next decade, instead of burning out by next year.
Very interesting. I think if there's one common thing causing many of the world's ills (and yes, I realise that looking for one is somewhat contradictory, and goes against the 5th paragraph above) is that things are over-simplified and made easy. Very rarely are things simple, problems have simple answers, or shortcuts effective without causing harm somewhere else.jameso wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:25 am From an advertising strategist's blog today. No answers suggested in it, simply a well-expressed comment on a similar topic.
It's hard to work in advertising and have second thoughts about capitalism. I've been here more times than I can count. And yet, the answer doesn't seem as simple as ‘burn the whole thing down’. We can get to more nuance, but that starts with inner work.
Capitalism isn't evil, but it's a tool. Tools get co-opted by bad actors. And bad ideas are often good ideas taken too far. We are now seeing new and more sustainable versions of a ‘more ok capitalism’. I hope they grow in scale and influence.
But my version of ‘ok capitalism’ is different than yours, because my values may be different too. This is ok. It's necessary. It's how we keep discussing the true nature of progress. And it's how we make career choices that may feel more ethical to us too. Knowing those values opens a diagnosis, and hints at a strategy. The rest is tactics.
The great mistake of moral philosophy? To assume there are ultimate answers, and if only everyone followed them. Reality is messier than that. There are infinite answers, to fit infinite ways to structure our lives. Sure, there are very wrong answers we can all agree on. But if we work out what we value first, the rest can start following.
I value compassion, clarity of thought and creativity. These things give my life more meaning. So my version of ‘ok capitalism’ needs them. They shape my behaviours at work, where my career could go next, and who I won't work for, or on behalf of.
Will this save the world? I don't know. Does it give me a useful template to keep chipping away at trying to live in a more net positive way? It does. And it's something I can keep evolving over the next decade, instead of burning out by next year.
HTC perhaps - some are made in Taiwan (not sure if all) and it's a Taiwanese company. ime via the bike industry Taiwan and China are very closely linked in terms of manufacturing trade, many companies have facilities in both countries and HTC may well be similar so it's worth checking. Culturally they're certainly different countries but it depends on how / what you see as 'supporting the CCP'.Does anyone happen to have a good suggestion of a good phone not made in China pls
Hate to sound pessimistic but China's so massive and their manufacturing economy so complex and hard to avoid... but the more people are aware of it the more careful brands are with who makes what for them. Unfortunately that seems to mean 'make stuff in Shenzen or Tianjin, it's ok there', which may be a long way from the camps but is still supporting the economy and regime.at least start the process of beginning to stay away to at least push them to stop the abuses...