Technical Descending

[Dave Barter]

Where’s the video of Taylor showing us how it’s done in a car park

[whitestone]

That's how I'd tackle it too. So I'm not doing too bad. Just need to relax more over constant DH terrain. I can manage a slab/rock or two. But when it becomes lots of rocks all over I get slightly overwhelmed. Thanks the pic...

I think that's the difference between good technical riders and the rest of us: I can manage an isolated techy feature and then think "phew, managed that!" but if it's - feature, feature, feature, feature... then I'm not clearing my mind in time for all those subsequent drops, rocks, etc.

I suppose that's why following someone down a trail helps - you are concentrating on keeping up with them rather than the individual features on the trail. I followed a mate (who's way better than me) down a descent in Grizedale Forest, he was on a full suss, I was on a rigid, apart from the very last bit which was fast and rubbly I kept up with him. On my own I've never gone anywhere near as fast down that trail because I begin to concentrate more on the features/obstacles than just taking a line.

[Lazarus]

That's how I'd tackle it too

Pfft huck to flat is how i would handle it

Multiple stuff it just depends i find i am better if i dont stop start and just clear it all but , like us all, there is a limit to what i will ride . Its steepness , rather than technical, that gets me off / walking but i have gone OTB a number of times and that is my fear / most likely crash- and best avoided by more speed and being relaxed but once i tense up intend to.stop as neither of thise is happening

[redefined_cycles]

I'm glad Bob said that. I always thought it was just me. Stuff like Sticks Pass still gives me nightmares to this day. Rest of them had probably got toy the bottom at least 10 minutes before me.

I do/did keep up from the start (albeit me being on rigid, but that's no excuse) but then slowly as I struggle to keep pace or them in site the thought of a cracked head face starts eating at me

Maybe I just need another full Susser for a while so I can walk down in style.

[redefined_cycles]

Said I’d strike while the iron is hot Hoping to have another crack at the HT550 next year. I completed it in 2018 in 6.5 days on a hardtail bike (no dropper seatpost) and I’d like to go a bit faster next time. My stopped time was excessive which is an easy place to start but I also hiked down most of the techy descents which is a bit demoralising after all the hard work climbing. Coming from a mostly road background I’d like to improve my descending skills. So what’s the best way to learn, how did you learn…videos, online courses, coaching etc?

Also, I’m not looking for an excuse to buy yet another bike but if a full suspension bike would help then I’d consider it. Thanks.

Or maybe you're just doing it with the wrong bike and needs a SS rigid Stooge https://open.spotify.com/episode/0n6ghY ... RMZ1Lie1xQ

[fatbikephil]

That's how I'd tackle it too

Pfft huck to flat is how i would handle it

With a whip thrown in
Speed makes a difference - I tend to be at walking speed on steep steppy stuff (rigid ss + age 53) so arse over seat seems right. Hey ho.

[Hyppy]

I suppose that's why following someone down a trail helps - you are concentrating on keeping up with them rather than the individual features on the trail. I followed a mate (who's way better than me) down a descent in Grizedale Forest, he was on a full suss, I was on a rigid, apart from the very last bit which was fast and rubbly I kept up with him. On my own I've never gone anywhere near as fast down that trail because I begin to concentrate more on the features/obstacles than just taking a line.

We rode Garburn (the sensible way not the Winter Jenn/hike-a-bike way) today and got into a conversation about descending ability as only one of the four of us cleared it top to bottom. I'm way better a descender when I'm following someone who's good/confident at it, although I think that this is perhaps as I'm encouraged to be looking further ahead down the trail at them rather than necessarily following their line.

It's a bit of a cliché but, to a point, speed really is your friend and this is where my confidence can fail me. You need enough to carry you over anything that'd otherwise grab or stall your front wheel. This was the step down that got two of us earlier on, each going too slow approaching it, and so bailing. They always look so insignificant after the event or when watching someone else clear it.

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[fatbikephil]

Unfortunately I think the bike does make a difference, much as I'd like to think otherwise. A few years a go a mate had a go of someone's sc Bronson and he said that you could ride it down anything... at the time his bike was a rigid 26er half fat

[landel]

Thanks for all the detailed replies. I appreciate the excellent suggestions and advice. Lots to work on for the next while

I guess I firstly need to limit my stopped time and increase efficiency/speed at HAB. These alone could lead to major time savings by themselves. I'll definitely add a dropper. Also practice more technical stuff and see what improvements I can make. Even learning the basics thoroughly and getting comfortable in rougher terrain would probably help greatly with my confidence even if I still have to walk bits. Possibly linking the HAB 'training' with the rougher/steeper descents would keep things interesting and fun too.

That book, Mastering Mountain Bike Skills by Brian Lopes, looks good so I'll try to lay my hands on that.

We'll have to see about the bike too I suppose, any excuse, but first things first

[Alpinum]

Coming from a mostly road background I’d like to improve my descending skills. So what’s the best way to learn, how did you learn…videos, online courses, coaching etc?

Also, I’m not looking for an excuse to buy yet another bike but if a full suspension bike would help then I’d consider it. Thanks.

First of all - congrats
Must be a beast (Alan's creation) without the tech riding skillset. I doff my hat especially to those who don't find the tech bits to be fun and enjoyable.

Despite riding for nearly 30 years in the Prealps and Alps, where tech, rough and exposed mountain paths are a constant, I still watch videos (Youtube) by Ben Cathro (via Pinkbike), Remy Metallier, Fabien Barel etc. and try to improve my riding.
Learn how to put those lessons into use by sessioning sections. Give yourself time and focus on one specific field for multiple rides (eg weight distribution) before trying something new (correct braking).
Find some tech stuff in your usual riding area.
Dry training on easy terrain and translate that into more challenging tracks.
Ride with tech strong mates and ask them to ride your pace, rather than zooming off into the distance.
Ride 5 - 10 m apart and talk about what's coming up, what's to look out for, line choices etc.
Stop frequently to not overcook your hands, arms and legs from the chatter, braking and bracing.
When stronger and weaker riders regroup, the group should wait for the slowest to get some rest too.
Ask mates to give you too a moment of rest. The slowest usually need it the most...
Coaching surely is a good idea too, but I think it's best to be able to ride with strong riders regularly (ideally they have coaching experience) and mix it with some teaching/learning, rather than 1 - 2 sessions with a professional coach across two weekends or so.

I believe you learn more riding a ht, rather than a fs. But in my POV it goes both ways; what I learn(ed) from ht or rigid riding fed and still feeds into my riding on fs and vice versa, especially the part of letting the bike do more work.

How much does a fs help on a route like the HT550 is an interesting one.
I rode the HT550 in 2013 (when it was shorter) and in 2016 (both times with a fs) and know what you encountered (Fisherfield, Torridon, Tollie, Devils Staircase etc.) and whilst I never rode a ht (hardtail) or rigid around the HT550, I did/do a bit of rigid MTB riding in the Prealps and Alps.
From this experience I see the HT550 to be on the verge of ht vs. fs (full susser). With a fs you'll be less fatigued, especially if you don't possess the skillset to ride with a certain pace through the rough stuff, unweigh the bike in the right moment, pull clean bunny hops across them drain ditches and know how to let the bike do more work etc. With lockouts on shocks the road and smooth double tracks can be ridden without loss of pedal efficiency. I guess tyre choice make a much bigger difference.
I also guess for tech strong riders the difference between ht and fs is smaller than for not so strong riders.
But your current bike can be adapted: different tyres (more grip, larger volume), well maintained suspesion fork (if you're not riding rigid), wider bars, larger rotors and good pads to get more sensitivity and power from your brakes, perhaps even an angleset (to slacken the HTA by 1 - 2°) if possible on your bike. Going from cleats to plattform pedals can also be a good option depending on your situation.
I like to think that contemporary trail bike geometry will feed more into confidence than suspension alone. I'd rather ride something like the Sirius (rode a Moxie myself for a couple of years - great bikes), than a XC race fs with a geo from 2015.

With one year to go, there's loads of time to improve.

I'm way better a descender when I'm following someone who's good/confident at it, although I think that this is perhaps as I'm encouraged to be looking further ahead down the trail at them rather than necessarily following their line.

I find there's a certain distance needed; if I ride too close to mates (perhaps <5 m), I struggle to see what's ahead, since the rider is in the way. Once there's a larger gap, I see what my mate is doing and can read the terrain.

It's a bit of a cliché but, to a point, speed really is your friend and this is where my confidence can fail me. You need enough to carry you over anything that'd otherwise grab or stall your front wheel.

Absolutely
It's truly crazy how much more energy is used for the same distance, when riding rough stuff slower. Next to riding more into the hits, you're also braking and thus bracing more.
With more speed you can easily skip across hits, or pop over them. You brake less and thus the bike remains more settled and has more grip.

edited some misspellings

[Alpinum]

Oh... one more thing (well, it never ends...):
The more technical, the less I'm sat on the saddle, the less weight I want on my bike.
For full on tech bikepacking routes I'll only have tools, mat, bivy bag or tarp and some food on the bike. Rest is in a lightweight 15 - 20 L rucksack/running vest.
The bike gets moved around much more than some stuff hanging from your back. Another way to save some energy. Carrying the bike is also much easier, with less weight on the bike, more in the rucksack.
Once the terrain is mellower, I carry more on/in the bike, less on my back.
For the HT550 I had a 10 L rucksack for the water bladder, some food, electronics and clothes I'd don/doff regularly. Everything else on the bike.

And of course: take less sh*t.

[landel]

Thanks very much, that's fantastic info. I've plenty to work through there but as you say a fair bit of time to do it

I'll play around with taking some weight off the bike too and of course TLS

[Valerio]

I just wanted to thank all for this thread and comments, it's been a super interesting read.

Ive just done my first ride using a suspension fork (on drop bars ) and it was great to see how much comfier it made the descents.

I can second the comments about speed and friends:
- i went otb twice and both times is because I hesitated, slowed down too much and planted my front whell (I'm also still not used to the fork compressing!)
- I tend to ride by myself and whenever i see something that I percieve to be unrideable, I'll just get off the bike. The few times ive ridden with friends who are expert off-road riders it has really opened my eyes to what bikes and skills can do, making me attempting stuff and learning