A carbon Shand...

[ianfitz]

A new carbon Shand

http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/oykel/

[Teetosugars]

You mean a generic Chinese frame frame, painted, and stickered up by Shand, and then 3 x the price..

Oh dear..

Here you go..

You just need your own stickers..

http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html

[whitestone]

A new carbon Shand

http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/oykel/

I thought "The wide range of gears available with a single ring at the front means the days are numbered for the front derailleur on bikes other than specialist touring bikes." was a bit of a bold statement. Though I've run 1x on my MTB for two years now.

Nice to see them offering a threaded BB as well.

[Ian]

You mean a generic Chinese frame frame, painted, and stickered up by Shand, and then 3 x the price..

Oh dear..

Here you go..

You just need your own stickers..

http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html

Not quite. Looks the same, but different
I know Shand have made some specific investment/ design input into their Oykel frame.

Looking forward to slinging a leg over one at some point

[firedfromthecircus]

You mean a generic Chinese frame frame, painted, and stickered up by Shand, and then 3 x the price..

Oh dear..

Here you go..

You just need your own stickers..

http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html

Ouch!

Not sure that is a good move by Shand. I'm no branding expert but does it not pull the whole brand down?

[Chew]

Not sure that is a good move by Shand. I'm no branding expert but does it not pull the whole brand down?

Me neither.
You have a have a brand built up on custom made in Scotland and position it at the premium/luxury end of the market the last thing you want to do is offer something made by some factory in China that looks very similar to a generic frame.

How long before On-One buy a load of those generic frames and knock them out for a third of the price?

[Bearbonesnorm]

I ws actually hoping for a 'designed in Scotland built somewhere else' steel frame for the common man (or woman) with an obvious distinction between those and the 'made in Scotland' frames ... although, I do quite like the look of that.

[ton]

are they actually custom built in scotland?
i had a thought that the frames were bought in and custom specced in scotland. custom built is surely when you go, are measured and the frame is built for your size/needs.
offering s/m/l/xl does not mean custom in my eyes.

[Ian]

All the steel frames are made in Scotland. There's a range of regular sizes and, for those who want it, custom geometry at extra cost (for which you get measured up).

Seems better in my mind to outsource something that you have no in-house capacity to produce, and continue to produce the core product upon which the reputation is built.

As I said up above, I know Steven has been working on this a while now and the frame you see on the their site has some subtle differences to the other "generic" link posted above.

[ScotRoutes]

are they actually custom built in scotland?

They are

http://www.shandcycles.com/about/process/

[Pat]

Even the generic one is a trek stache copy!

[Teetosugars]

Even the generic one is a trek stache copy!

You mean it's what Trek use as their Stache...

[Pat]

Nope.....have a read of this. Two years in R&D.....

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/bike/ ... ntain-bike

[24tom]

Even the generic one is a trek stache copy!

You mean it's what Trek use as their Stache...

Stache is aluminium, Nick! Interested in trying the Oykel. Love the Stache, but it's a little flexy around the BB. Be interesting to see whether this is stiffer. I've not looked at the geom charts, but the Stache would benefit from being an inch or so longer in the top tube. If the Oykel ticks that box, hmm...

[mountainbaker]

the frame you see on the their site has some subtle differences to the other "generic" link posted above.

You mean they've painted it.

Expensive paint too considering it costs nearly £700* (though the site says the paint is £0)

* frame is approx £295 on Alibaba

[restlessshawn]

If that was an On-One for half the price I'd be quite impressed, as it is it does seem like an odd thing for Shand to do. I thought the whole point was they are a boutique UK steel frame builder.

I've had it in my head for a while I am going to buy something a bit special in a few years (not very many!) when I am 50, not sure I'd look at Shand if they start doing this rather than sticking to classy steel offerings. Hopefully Mercian will be offering something with disc mounts and big tyre clearance by then...I better start saving

[mountainbaker]

Seems like a really odd move from Shand. When you look at the likes of On-One, Sonder, Superstar etc, they are pretty open that it's made in china, and they keep their markup as low as they can and pass on savings to the consumer.

This is the opposite end of the spectrum, take a generic frame, sticker it up with a respected custom frame brand, add humungous markup and hope the customer is stupid enough to fall for it.

If this frame really isn't just a generic alibaba job, what are the differences?

[SRS]

Is it possible that mould is the same but the carbon layup is different?

[atk]

I'm interested in this new "Gates Carbon Dive", if it doesn't help my flying forward one and a a half somersault I'll be disappointed.

[cycleofaddiction]

There is a slight difference in the measurements between the different sizes on the Shand website compared to the one's given on the Chinese website! Is this the subtle difference?

[mountainbaker]

Is it possible that mould is the same but the carbon layup is different?

Maybe it has gold and diamonds laid in with it to increase the value.

[DrMekon]

ICAN make a similar Stache clone - I bought a pair of their forks to swap in for the Manitous on my Stache 9. Carbonspeed seem to be doing one with sliding dropouts if SSing one is your thing

http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1460

There was talk of On-One bringing over a carbon Stache clone too.

The guys in my LBS are pretty sure a 27.5+ and carbon Stache are going to be put out my Trek for 2017my.

FWIW, I think Shand have devalued their brand by doing this, but that's just my perception. It really looks like they've just sprayed up a cheap frame and popped a fancy build on it.

[Ian]

Had to check for a moment that I wasn't on Singletrack World...

Like I said further up, maybe even twice , Shand have made some investment in this frame over and above what you can get off the shelf (and I don't mean just paint it).

Maybe we should reserve judgement until we can read a ride report and see if it's worth the money?

Perhaps a small UK steel manufacturer with an excellent reputation and ethos can broaden its customer base by diversifying into the carbon market and offering something that doesn't detract from its core business?

[Teetosugars]

Had to check for a moment that I wasn't on Singletrack World...

Like I said further up, maybe even twice , Shand have made some investment in this frame over and above what you can get off the shelf (and I don't mean just paint it).

Genuinely interested to hear what these are..

[Alpinum]

From here:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/aufbauth ... 905/page-2

Frame (looks like size 17") with liner = 1377 g

Shand claims 1000 g
http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/oykel/
But they don't claim their own design although I do read a "[...]our solution is to [...]"
I quite like this on Shand's page:

"CARBON FIBRE


We work closely with our Carbon Fibre manufacturing partners in Asia for the production of our carbon frames and the carbon forks on some of our steel models. We do not manufacture carbon products in-house, but all carbon frames and forks undergo final inspection, finishing and painting in our workshop on Scotland. Our manufacturing partner has been producing carbon product to the cycling community since 2006 and are world renowned for their expertise in the composites industry."

Fair play, not like some other companies who try to hide the rather obvious.

Both bikes use Toray T700 fibres.
http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/27_5ER_frame/330.html

Nothing special here.
But a weight difference of ca. 360 g (377 minus the Di2- cap) is huge. Maybe Shand got the weight from a size S frame... but then... still seems a bit much(?)

Then there's the two position drop out.

Before Brexit the saving when buying the ICAN instead of the Shand would've been roughly 35 %. That's seems a lot. Question is, how good is ICAN's customers support? Companies like Nextie have showed amazing efforts in a case I'm familiar with... Asian direct sellers have upped their game. It'd be a tough call if Shand where a Swiss company (with out the swiss price)... if I wanted that bike, I'd probably ask Shand for a good deal and go with them. But then, I'm Swiss. Swiss like to pay too much