E-Bike Threat

ScotRoutes · Post by **ScotRoutes** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:53 pm

ScotRoutes wrote:
Richard G wrote:I'm a bit confused about how it might ruin it for those who can't afford e-bikes? I mean... I can afford one, but I like the challenge / reward of getting up a stupid big hill using nothing but my own stubbornness. If someone breezes past me on an ebike, so be it. It's their choice to make ...................................... it doesn't affect my enjoyment in any way.
That.

If someone uses an ebike to get out and enjoy themselves, why should I feel anything negative towards them at all?

fatbikephil · Post by **fatbikephil** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:02 pm

The law is straightforward - if it does less than 15mph its not a mechanically propelled vehicle and access rights apply or it can be used on a bridleway or above in England and Wales. If it does more than 15mph then it is a mpv and requires the rider to have a motorcycle license, tax, insurance etc. It can only be ridden on the public highway / road or on a vehicular ROW. The difficulty is enforcement, particularly if you can switch between restricted and full power modes so type approval wil have to deal with that and e-bikes will have to clearly display type approval marks. Simples.....

Richpips · Post by **Richpips** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:44 pm

I think they are ace.

Have you ridden one yet?

They are super smooth, and in this country are limited to 15 mph. I've a mate who wins everything, as does his kids. Should they leave his non athlete Mrs (no slouch) at home now the kids have grown up and got stronger?

Not a tool for bikepacing, or at least until there are charging points at all bivvy spots eh. :)

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:51 pm

I'd actually love to get my missus on one. She never rode with me because she found hills agonising, but I'd love for her to be able to get out with me from time to time, even if it's just pootling along the canal or something.

benp1 · Post by **benp1** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:56 am

When they become better value they'd be ace for my dad or my wife

They need more generative technology so braking would top up the battery. Obviously that costs though

I like the idea of the Copenhagen wheel

jameso · Post by **jameso** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:06 am

Not a tool for bikepacing, or at least until there are charging points at all bivvy spots eh. :)

More excuses for pub/cafe stops .. : ) one every 40 miles or so, no bad thing ime.

Zippy · Post by **Zippy** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:14 am

FLV wrote:Ramblers - Its just for us
Horsists - Its just for us (and ramblers), those pedal bikes are too fast
Bikes - Its Just for us, ramblers and I suppose the horse types if they could control their animals.
Engines - Cant we play too, wish the ramblers would get out of the way, and horses shouldn't be allowed as they're not in control of their animals
Road Drivers on country lanes - Bloody cyclists and horses, a danger to us all and making me late...

Hit Nail on head

VeganGraham · Post by **VeganGraham** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:33 am

One thing that everyone seems to have overlooked is inevitable improvements in technology.
Compare the lights we are using now with what we had ten years ago, then think about how obsolete 250w and 15mph is going to look in ten years time.
It may be OK saying an ebike is acceptable now because it's just a bit of assistance for the old and frail, but at what point does it become unacceptable?
Like most things in life, upgrades will no doubt become available. Will you still think they're OK when battery and motor technology improves and they are fitted with 500w motors? What about 1kw motors? Or software hacks to disable the speed limiter?

mountainbaker · Post by **mountainbaker** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:06 am

Aside from e-bikes, I really wish horse owners would pick up after their pets. Crap everywhere around here.

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:26 am

VeganGraham wrote:Will you still think they're OK when battery and motor technology improves and they are fitted with 500w motors? What about 1kw motors? Or software hacks to disable the speed limiter?

All of that already exists to a certain extent. We already have batteries and motors with significant power (though not life) and I personally know people who have either disabled the limiter, or made it so that the motor works independent of pedalling. Against the law, sure, but that's what happens.

I see it no differently to MX bikes really, which I see on trails they shouldn't be on all the time. There will always be some asshole that has to do something stupid and spoil it for others.

johnnystorm · Post by **johnnystorm** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:31 am

VeganGraham wrote:One thing that everyone seems to have overlooked is inevitable improvements in technology.
Compare the lights we are using now with what we had ten years ago, then think about how obsolete 250w and 15mph is going to look in ten years time.
It may be OK saying an ebike is acceptable now because it's just a bit of assistance for the old and frail, but at what point does it become unacceptable?
Like most things in life, upgrades will no doubt become available. Will you still think they're OK when battery and motor technology improves and they are fitted with 500w motors? What about 1kw motors? Or software hacks to disable the speed limiter?

You can buy ones with more powerful motors right now. If the law says '250w motor' then Cube et al aren't going to start putting 500w motors in. Even with battery improvements a 500w motor is still going to guzzle power twice as fast as 250w. Unless riders are carrying spares or massive batteries they aren't going to be venturing far from the car park.

To be honest, if I spent most of my riding time at trail centres I'd be more worried.

VeganGraham · Post by **VeganGraham** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:19 am

Cube might not start fitting illegal 500w motors, but that doesn't mean no one else will offer the electric equivalent of a moped big bore kit.

Unless riders are carrying spares or massive batteries they aren't going to be venturing far from the car park.

Ten years ago you might have said that lights can't get any brighter or longer lasting because riders couldn't carry the massive ni-cad batteries needed to power their halogen bulbs.
One sure thing about technology, especially electronics, is that it always gets better and cheaper.
I can remember when mobile phones were the size of a brick and only yuppies could afford them. Is there any reason why ebikes won't go the same way?

Zippy · Post by **Zippy** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:25 am

VeganGraham wrote: I can remember when mobile phones were the size of a brick and only yuppies could afford them. Is there any reason why ebikes won't go the same way?

And that is precisely the point I will be interested in getting one. Lots of good tech development going on with electric motors and control systems in the auto industry, so these should be pukka things that are slightly more socially acceptable than a monkey bike

The people that are going to be a pain on these things aren't likely to adhere to random signs anyway....

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:39 pm

The people that are going to be a pain on these things aren't likely to adhere to random signs anyway....

So true ... you can't legislate for nobs because sadly, they will always be nobs.

jameso · Post by **jameso** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:50 pm

I can remember when mobile phones were the size of a brick and only yuppies could afford them. Is there any reason why ebikes won't go the same way?

Apparently battery and motor technology isn't likely to shrink much or gain efficiency in the near future. They may get cheaper though. But not as cheap as a S/H chavs moped or minimoto that I never see on the local trails anyway ; )
As they get more popular you'll simply see more older and recreational cyclists out in hillier areas. I don't think we'll see any more than that. Maybe the odd idiot going too fast for a shared-use trail or being a prat in traffic, like you see now. But more of them? Doubt it tbh.

DrMekon · Post by **DrMekon** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:51 pm

VeganGraham wrote: Will you still think they're OK when battery and motor technology improves and they are fitted with 500w motors? What about 1kw motors? Or software hacks to disable the speed limiter?

The guy with the 2KW BSO in Leeds is using a framebag and a saddle pack. If the bike weren't a Wilco special, he'd look like he'd been bike packing.

The way the back end squatted as he pulled away did look cool. He said was limited to around 40kph.

Richard G · Post by **Richard G** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:39 pm

It's funny, this thread has now got me giving serious thought to getting for for the missus.

ScotRoutes · Post by **ScotRoutes** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:23 pm

We should ban them all from the trails because some of them will be illegally modified?

Can we apply a similar rule to ALL motor vehicles?

Single Speed George · Post by **Single Speed George** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:34 pm

i dont mind aslong as they are banned from Strava

but if you go with the argument that they are the same as bikes (still not sure i agree totally ) can i buy one for the bb200

hahahaha

slarge · Post by **slarge** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:00 pm

I want to get one for the Mrs so we could go for a ride together - she complains that I would go too fast and she hates hills, so for an hours ride to the up an ebike would be great. That said, an ebike sometimes passes me on the way to work and he breezes up hills at 20mph and at least 25mph on the flat and it wouldn't surprise me if he has all the local KOMs!

GregMay · Post by **GregMay** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:26 pm

I find the easiest way to not have to deal with them is ride more than 30km in one direction away from where they started.They turn back sooner.

I've ridden one. Several actually. Both on road, and MTB versions. I get what they are for, I get that they will help certain people ride with others, I get that they will help people enjoy the outdoors under certain medical circumstances.

Every one I've rode off road has rode like a gate. Underbraked, undergeared if you run out of battery (which happened on purpose), awful handling.

I ride bikes because I enjoy how it feels to hurt. I won't be investing in one any time in the foreseeable future. If people want to ride around on them like dicks, so be it. I'll just ride away further until they aren't there. Generally, this is the same place where there is no one to tell you where you can and can't ride anyway.

FWIW, if anyone rides one around all of the HT550 - or 440 - self supported, I'll buy you a case of beer. Nice beer.

jameso · Post by **jameso** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:04 am

I ride bikes because I enjoy how it feels to hurt.

I think most of us on here will get that side of it but when I was 7 or 8, up till late teens, I rode a bike simply because it was fun, that's how our relationship with bikes start out I think. The fitness, 'testing' or ego side of it comes in later in life. For a lot of people riding a bike can still be fun if you take the hurt part out of it. I'm all for that, fun first.

I ride my OH's E-bike (the orange one above) from time to time simply as it is fun to ride, especially on a monday evening with tired legs after the weekend. It handles the added weight well, the brakes are good and it has given her loads of confidence in riding, from local trails to easy trail centre stuff. It's a bit small for me but it doesn't matter, I can pedal it with the saddle low and get to that 'OK steady on...' point pretty easily on it. I've ridden a few others that aren't great but they were all were town/hybrid types.

I won't be taking it on the HTR loop

but if there was a few less miles of bog-trudging and carrying I expect I could.. it's just the weight that's the issue. It'd be interesting to see how the power weighs up against the need for charging time in terms of overall pace. But that's not what interests me about E-bikes, it's more about what they can do to even up the gaps between us and non-riders. Bike camping is a fun social thing when your child, non-cyclist friend or partner can cope with the hills and cover 40+ miles with relative ease.

TheBrownDog · Post by **TheBrownDog** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:27 am

Finally remember to upload this thing.

If e-bikes are a threat, the e-fatty is the Apocalypse but ye Gods it must be fun to ride.

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notinabox · Post by **notinabox** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:19 am

Cheeky Monkey wrote:Oh dear laws it's all a bit STW ain't it

Was just thinking exactly the same! Funny :)

Bearbonesnorm · Post by **Bearbonesnorm** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:46 am

Sod the E-Bike, I reckon for less than £80 one of these kits has to be the way forward ... brum, brum

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