Blacks Sleeping bags

[whitestone]

As I noted in the Bargain Alert thread, Blacks currently have around 30% off their sleeping bags. I'm considering one of these http://www.blacks.co.uk/equipment/62005 ... g-red.html for three season use (I have a PHD Minimus 200 for summer use and a Rab 1200 for colder stuff). Has anyone experience of their bags? I know we are heading in to comparing fill power vs comfort rating vs season vs whatever other marketing hoo-ha but it's more general thoughts about the quality etc.

A search for reviews brings up:

http://www.walkingforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=25107.0 where one poster seems happy enough with their purchase.
The bags gets linked to in one or two other forums as well but no review.

I'm a fairly warm sleeper so happy with using it at the lower end of the quoted temperature range.

The store (Ultimate Sports) in Skipton has them in stock so I've had hands on one, the down doesn't feel that bad TBH, perhaps the quoted 90/10 down/feather ratio is about right, I don't think I'd be lying on a bed of nails.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've no direct experience but it seems quite expensive for a 'cheap down bag. I know we don't want to be talking about the technical aspects but the fact that they don't tell you how much down's in the thing bothers me. Also the lower temp rating of +5 doesn't realy indicate a 3 season bag - doesn't say whether +5 is the comfort rating or the extreme rating

[whitestone]

Curiously the temp rating on the bag's stuff sack goes from -5C presumably as the "extreme" rating, the +5C was about the "comfort" rating. The given ratings on the other bags was in line with this.

Not wishing to do Blacks promotion for them but the other (synthetic) bags were definitely aimed at DofE type use and I don't think that market is overly concerned with fill power, quantity and quality of down (it's all the same right?), I doubt that they even understand the 90/10 figure.

Even at their RRP they are significantly cheaper, roughly 50% cheaper, than (temperature rated) equivalent PHD bags so I'm under no illusion that there has to be something to account for the difference. Assuming that the extreme rating on the Cosmos 500 is correct at -5C then as an example these http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/minim-400-do ... g-k-series & http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/minim-400-down-sleeping-bag are also rated to -5C but weigh around 50-60% of the Cosmos and cost 100% and 50% more respectfully.

I'm of the "buy cheap, buy twice" persuasion so would rather get a decent product but if the Cosmos punches above its price then it should be in the running.

Edit: There's also factors like the quality of the fabric which is really hard to judge just by feel: a poor fabric will allow the down to escape at a greater rate, not good if the down isn't the best to begin with, within a year or two of use you could end up with a bag that is more correctly rated several degrees above what you bought it as, i.e. a zero rated bag rather than -5C

[ootini]

I think those temp values put it in a similar range to the Mountain Hardwear Lamina 35. I bought one from Blacks, coincidentally, recently for about £60. Just a thought.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Even at their RRP they are significantly cheaper, roughly 50% cheaper, than (temperature rated) equivalent PHD bags so I'm under no illusion that there has to be something to account for the difference.

I don't think you can use phd as a benchmark, the quality is superb but they're much more expensive than anything else inc' Cumulus, Rab, etc. If you compare that Blacks bag to say a Cumulus 350 quilt or liteline bag the reduced price doesn't look quite so appealing.

[whitestone]

I do have a Rab bag - one of these http://rab.equipment/uk/shop/sleeping-b ... ition-1509 It is very nice

[ctznsmith]

I have a Blacks down bag which is a 2013 model I think.

The down escapes through the inside fabric pretty rapidly.

I knew this when I bought it as I'd borrowed the same model previously, but at a cost of £45 and with a limited budget I was/am happy knowing it won't last me forever.

They may of course have improved since then.

At that price I'd look at the Robens down bags.

[whitestone]

I don't think you can use phd as a benchmark, the quality is superb but they're much more expensive than anything else inc' Cumulus, Rab, etc. If you compare that Blacks bag to say a Cumulus 350 quilt or liteline bag the reduced price doesn't look quite so appealing.

Given I've a decent summer bag already, maybe a quilt as a second layer rather than a replacement might be a better option. The Cumulus 150 weighs 375g, so about 100g less than my PHD minimus and a combined weight of 850g compared with 670 for the PHD Minim 400. Also at around £116 it's 40% of the cost of the PHD.

Looking at the Cumulus quilt, how long are they? I see in your review of the 150 that you consider them short. I'm 5'11" and do like my shoulders covered when the temperature drops. Maybe one of the Enlightened Revelation quilts, their regular size works out at £149?

PS. I looked at quite a few other makes/models of comparable sleeping bag and for me the PHD was still the better bag, cost, aside, I've used/have down equipment from Rab, ME, Alpkit, etc. so have something to compare it to.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Looking at the Cumulus quilt, how long are they? I see in your review of the 150 that you consider them short. I'm 5'11" and do like my shoulders covered when the temperature drops. Maybe one of the Enlightened Revelation quilts, their regular size works out at £149?

The Cumulus quilts aren't that long but there's plenty of folk seem happy with them that are much taller than me. The Enlightened quilts are generally bigger, I appreciate the extra width in Winter ... lovely and snuggly but remember you'll possibly get stung for duty

[whitestone]

Cumulus quote a maximum user height of 185cm (I'm 180cm (5'11")) so so long as I could cinch the shoulder/top so that it didn't slip down then it should be OK. Anyone of similar height care to comment?

[whitestone]

Done a bit of research I've currently got a PHD Minimus. Four options (at the moment), two come in around 680g and two come in at 830g. The cost varies from £116 to £290 The weights include the Minimus except for the option of the Minim 400 which is a replacement bag. The cost does not include the Minimus, i.e. it's what I would be spending.

Option 1. Use a PHP Filler bag to go with the Minimus. Combined weight of 690g, cost: £219
Option 2. Get a PHP Minim 400. Weight: 670g, cost: £290
Option 3. Add a Cumulus Quilt 150 to the Minimus. Combined weight of 825g, cost: £116
Option 4. Add an Enlightened Revelation quilt to the Minimus. Combined weight of 835g, cost £158 (not including any potential duty)

Current thoughts are: option 1 feels neat but also expensive for what it is, it's actually more expensive than the main bag! Option 2 looks like the least flexible option, it would be only useful for spring and autumn but would mean that there's less wear and tear on the Minimus. Option 3 is flexible, more so than option 1, and could be used as a summer bag in it's own right. 160 grammes heavier though. Option 4 has the same advantages as option 3 but a bit more expensive.

One point I haven't considered is the extra bulk any of these options.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I vote for number 3

[whitestone]

My wife's voting for that as well She currently only has a three season bag so could use the Cumulus in summer then I use it as a wrapper during cooler weather and she goes back to her current bag.

Sounds like a winner to me, order placed

[yellowbellybivvybagger]

just seen your post,I had one of the blacks sleeping bags a short while ago,I found it kept me reasonably warm and the pack size wasn't bad either,the major ball ache was the bag shed down at an alarming rate.After a particularly frosty night bivi at Donna Nook I emerged out of my sleeping bag covered in feathers, much to the amusement of my friend!

[Mariner]

How times change. W'en I were a lad the finest bag you could get was a Blacks Icelandic. Hiked all over with that and spent a magical six weeks in Norway with the Senior Scouts.
Slept just below the snow line by a glacier melt water lake under the stars on just a ground sheet - remember them - inflatable pads were yet to be invented?

Sorry just went into nostalgia mode.