My Ti Lynskey has cracked!

[bod]

I know I'm going to sound like a misery or a troll but I'd be a bit concerned about a rewelded frame, most frames break at the heat affected zone near the weld (when seam welded tubes don't fail) so applying even more heat would make me nervous.
Just my tuppence worth, feel free to ignore me (the mrs does when I talk about bike stuff)

[numplumz]

I don't want to break your bubble of joy Ian, but check it over very carefully. Check the wheel alignment.
Just speaking from experience after receiving a similar "fantastic job" message.

[didnothingfatal]

Christ people talk bollocks about welding tubes! How many people have welded tubing? These guys are frame builders by trade, I welded a rotten VW together and built a roll cage, plenty of heat sink products out there to manage heat build up when welding. The main issue with welding Ti will be using titanium rod, ensuring absolute cleanliness and ensuring you have enough Argon behind the weld due to the thinness of the tubing used.

[pedalhead]

In fairness, Nevi do have previous form when it comes to shonky frame building.

[Ian]

OK, I'm perhaps being a bit naive posting so enthusiastically before I've actually seen it, but I'm inclined towards optimism :)

And, yes, I realise it may break again and that this may well be around an area that's been re-welded. I'll take a chance - I couldn't afford to scrap the frame and I have to accept that the option to repair or replace is at the discretion of manufacturer in the first instance of a failure. If it goes again, the chances of it being repairable are probably lessened and provided I'm still in warranty then I hope it will be OK.

I've not asked Sam directly but I wonder, having replaced the chainstays, if they've beefed them up slightly to reduce some of the rear end flex that might be causing stresses elsewhere? I should be able to tell once I ride it.

[didnothingfatal]

Granted they may have built shonky frames, but welding tubes isn't that difficult! Are these frames snapping at welds?

[pedalhead]

Ian, I think legally your warranty period should start over again with the repaired frame...or at least if it fails in a similar area.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've not asked Sam directly but I wonder, having replaced the chainstays, if they've beefed them up slightly to reduce some of the rear end flex that might be causing stresses elsewhere?

*It's quite possible that reducing the flex in one part of a frame will actually increase stress in another, you can't destroy energy you can only change or move it.


*Engineer hat on - sorry

[didnothingfatal]

I've not asked Sam directly but I wonder, having replaced the chainstays, if they've beefed them up slightly to reduce some of the rear end flex that might be causing stresses elsewhere?

*It's quite possible that reducing the flex in one part of a frame will actually increase stress in another, you can't destroy energy you can only change or move it.


*Engineer hat on - sorry

Well said that man :) When we were drag racing, the energy just looked for the next weakest link and snapped that part.

[Ian]

OK, frame is here. They've redone the dropouts - different style to the last ones entirely, more compact and with a new brace under the disc mount. They haven't, as far as I can tell, changed the chainstays. There is now a bridge between them though, just in behind the BB shell. The crack at the top of seat tube has a strip of weld over it, but the seat tube itself remains as it was. And they've redone the logo.

Everything is tidy, so that's cool. I'll check alignment as best I can, but with the chainstays as they were and the dropouts evidently having had something clamped onto them, I don't see this being a problem. Time to bolt everything back on and ride it again :)

[bod]

Christ people talk bollocks about welding tubes! How many people have welded tubing? These guys are frame builders by trade, I welded a rotten VW together and built a roll cage, plenty of heat sink products out there to manage heat build up when welding. The main issue with welding Ti will be using titanium rod, ensuring absolute cleanliness and ensuring you have enough Argon behind the weld due to the thinness of the tubing used.

Now, now, I wouldn't say it's "bollocks"; the kind of heat involved will affect the grain structure of the ti around the weld (making it harder but more brittle), if it didn't it'd be some kind of cold fusion. Part of the reason the tubes are butted is to handle the decrease in strength. A VW isn't exactly a light weight structure and bikes are pretty much on the edge in comparison, think how much you could remove from the body of a car without it falling apart.
All I was saying was TIG welded bike frames tend to break in the heat affected zone and if it's been welded twice in the same spot it'll increase the chances of that. I wasn't inferring Lynskey don't know what they're on about I only said I'd be wary of it because the ti wouldn't be as strong as when it was first welded. Seems like the seam welded tubes they use are the cause of most of the breakages.
Enjoy your bike once you get it back Ian!
Matt

[mollyiom]

friend of mine over here had an one one lynskey frame crack. sent it back to on one and hey approx 14 months later he got it back repaired.

One thing i will say is you wouldn't know it had been repaired as it came back like new, it was defo the same frame though.

His was used 100% single speed which maybe puts more strain on frames

[Anthony]

14 months wtf

It's been nearly 6 weeks and I have still yet to hear what Lysnkey have to say. A friend has a barely used Ridgeline LT that he noticed last week has split in exactly the same place, what are the chances!

Glad to hear yours has come back Ian.

Thing is, since buying the 29er as a stop-gap, I haven't missed it anywhere near as much as I thought

[Anthony]

Oh, and I would be inclined to agree with DNF. You'd think that producing thousands of frames in-house a year, if anyone knows about how to weld ti, it's lynskey. I'm certainly not saying they are the best, but I'm pretty sure they can draw on more experience than most.

Sure you hear about a lot of them failing, but then they make a lot of frames!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Seems like the seam welded tubes they use are the cause of most of the breakages.

Do they really build frames with seamed tube?

[Ian]

Right then, here's the low down:

Got the frame back together. On closer inspection, they have indeed changed the chainstays as I now have more heel clearance and better clearance for the chainring. The chainstays are also about half an inch shorter too, which is no bad thing. I can't tell if they've changed the seat tube or not - welds as the BB suggest they have, but elsewhere the welds are very tidy.

While the frame has been away, I've been gradually collecting some new bits to hang on it, so it's now 21.5 lbs, which is a pound lighter than it was, which includes a pair of Maxxis Ardent 2.4/2.2 tyres too 8-)

[didnothingfatal]

My reference to welding up roll cages, is welding tubes isn't difficult, and the forces that cage would be subjected to are way beyond anything a bike would experience. Tubes are falling not welds, is it seamed tubes or is it using superlightweight tubes? Is it using poor quality to tubes to maximise profit? Ti frames had the frame for life tag, read the forums you don't that impression, but what's the percentage of dying frames? OnOne delivered a ti frame a great price point for ti, how did they undercut the other frames so much? Singular came up with a lightweight, 'complient' frame, how did they spec that frame? I don't hear of many Cove Hummers dying? What % of on ones get sent back?

[numplumz]

Plenty of Cove Hummers have died, I known at least two.

Sounds good Ian, I'm slightly confused how they could have shortened the chainstays and improved ring clearance and added a brace! Will be interested to see it. I'm happy with my decision on quitting.

Mine and a highly respected welding instructor in the Turbine industry's opinion is that Nevi don't appear to cover overheating adequately. The pictures of them welding in an argon chamber might be misleading but there are no shots of heats Sinks in use. All the cracks breaks seem to be around the busy seat tube or BB.

Could be totally wrong but the % of failures to builds seems to back this up.

So how long before my TD-1 snaps then, at least that was a bargain....well so far.

[Ian]

I'm slightly confused how they could have shortened the chainstays and improved ring clearance and added a brace!

Well the chain I took off had a half link in it, and on refitting I didn't need the half link :?
However, I can't remember what position the EBB was in, so if its now 180 degree round from where it was, it could only be a 1/4" shorter. The clearance to the chainstay brace is about the same as the the seat stay one, and it appears that the tyre is running a touch closer to the seat tube.

For anyone interested, the bare frame (no EBB, seat clamp, bottle bolts etc) was 1477g.

[pedalhead]

The later versions of the Pegasus did have more curved chainstays. Mine was an early one & didn't unfortunately as I used to get some heel rub.

[Anthony]

Update from CRC-

Hi Anthony,

I am writing to give you an update on your Lynskey Ridgeline Titanium Frame. Our suppliers are based in America and have advised me that a repair is on schedule and will be ready to ship on the 11th of April.

if you have any further queries, don't hesitate to contact me and many thanks for your patience.

Kind Regards,

Yippee :D

[Anthony]

It's back after 3 long months :D

They have welded in a new top-tube and re-finished the whole frame, put on a new shiney headbadge too. Interestingly they have made the seat-post insert longer- from about 2" to 5" and it's down from 31.6mm to 27.2mm. The newer models have this anyway so I assume it's a common problem.

But, my old Thomson seatpost no longer fits :evil:

One moaning email to CRC and within 5 mins they have given me £120 of vouchers, how great is that :!:

To be honest I have been most impressed with CRC warranty and not for the first time either. Collected frame, kept me updated, sent it back 24hr, £120 of inconvenience credit. Brilliant.

Chuffed to bits.