Under-biked, over-biked, bimbling free …

[Hyppy]

Just thinking out loud and wondering how other BBers make a call on the right tool for the job. I've not long since built up a rigid MTB. It's ace and riding rigid takes me right back to my early mountain biking days in the late 80s. I've since put in some proper long days and an overnighter on it and all is good, and why wouldn't it be, I mean you always run what yer brung.

BUT, I'm now umming and ahing as to whether I stay rigid for the HT550 in May. I've not destroyed myself riding rigid here in The Lakes on long days out and an overnighter, but equally I've seen those with bounce riding off into the distance on the rough stuff too, which has me considering how much time is lost or saved on varying terrain; how much fatigue may be reduced by; how much more forgiving in line choice … etc. At what point in trying things out do you make a call as to thinking 'hey this is gonna alright' or 'nah, I'd be better with x'? I've ridden multi-day events rigid and with suspension over the years and so have no deal-breaking qualms one way or the other, I just can't decide how I decide!

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[fatbikephil]

Plenty of folk have done the HT (and worse) on rigid bikes In fact it was the 'thing' in it's early days.... Tom Rowntree got back first in 2015 on a fairly simple rigid singlespeed Shand. I've done it 4 times on rigid but I cheat and use big tyres to ease my aging body over the lumps and bumps!

In terms of speed I suspect it makes BA difference overall. Weight savings of a rigid may well counter the speed benefits of a bouncer. Who knows as it's so subjective. My view is that comfort is more about riding position than suspension travel. I've encountered a few people whose suspension hasn't by the end of the route, even high end Rockshox forks have started to fail on the wet years so any comfort benefits at the start have run out when you need it most, i.e. the last couple of days.

My only thought would be to wedge as big a tyre up front as you can to help with comfort and the bikes ability to ride over rock and bog!

[Hyppy]

Who knows as it's so subjective.

And therein lies the dilemma!

Thanks Phil, I nearly asked you explicitly given your experience, but equally know that there's no single correct answer.

[Lazarus]

Depends do you want to enjoy the descents or the climbs ?

I could ride nan bield or garburn rigid and SS *but why would i choose this ? Its way more fun with suspension
YMMV
Loaded does make a difference though so get a lauf and have a bit of both **

* have done garburn this way but generally take suspension and gears to big mountain areas and over a few days I would.appreciate FS
** admits to owning a lauf fork

[yourguitarhero]

I've settled on a springy hardtail frame and 100mm SIDs.
It's just more pleasant.

I am a bimbler.

[fatbikephil]

Depends do you want to enjoy the descents or the climbs ?

I could ride nan bield or garburn rigid and SS *but why would i choose this ? Its way more fun with suspension
YMMV

Ah but John, going down a rough descent rigid is far more fun as it's harder, slower and therefore lasts longer

[faustus]

You can be proud and rigid and be squishy! Doesn't have to be an either or! After a lot of time exclusively rigid, I now use a 100mm fork when needed. Usually when summer turns the ground rock solid and the rigid fork is pinging around too much (and I don't want to slow down), or if I know the comfort would be nice. I can see the case for both on a long distance trail like the HT. I'd be tempted for comfort rather than speed, and run a big tyre and sus fork, as you can always dial in some lockout if it gets a bit bouncy.

EDIT - but the reliability mentioned above would bug me though...

[RIP]

so get a lauf

New marketing slogan: "You're having a Lauf mate!"

Well it is Friday.

[Hyppy]

Usually when summer turns the ground rock solid and the rigid fork is pinging around too much (and I don't want to slow down), or if I know the comfort would be nice.

That's a really good point: My newly rediscovered love of riding rigid has been over the winter. I'll carry on giving it some thought as (fingers-crossed) the trails dry out.

I could ride nan bield or garburn rigid and SS *but why would i choose this ? Its way more fun with suspension

I actually went out that way on the full-susser for the first time in ages this afternoon, but kept below the clag that was hiding the passes. Just about caught a glimpse of the Nan Bield.

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[voodoo_simon]

Disclaimer - I’ve not done the race

But it’s the internet so why let that get in the way. I’d opt for the full suspension as it appears you have one, after a couple days of riding, I’d be glad to let the bike do the work in the downs (and actually on the ups to!) rather than trying to guide and feel every bump on the ride

I’ve ridden rigid for years and also singlespeed, so I appreciate how nice they are to ride and sometimes it’s easier on a SS on longer rides, but for something like that, I’d feel like full sus would be the way forward

[whitestone]

I did the HT on a rigid 29er, partly on the basis it was all I had. Alan G did raise an eyebrow or two at the start line!

It's easy to focus on individual successes and failures: The year I did it (2017) Neil Beltchenko rode the then fastest time on a full suss; a year or two before Josh Ibbett's FS began to fall apart as he exited Torridon; Liam Glen did a very fast time on a rigid Stooge in singlespeed mode; etc.

The HT550 is going to provide more than a typical fork/shock's service interval, granted not all of it's going to be full on but there's enough to stress things.

Biggest tyres you can fit in a rigid frame/fork would be the way to go IMO. Being five minutes slower on a long descent might well be countered by five minutes quicker on one of the road sections.

[Keith74]

For me being over or underbaked isn’t a major problem I would rather have a reliable bike that I had confidence would last the distance and be 10mins slower down some single track than a FS that falls to bits half way round. For most multi day trips I tend to ride my rigid with the biggest tyres I can away with.

[fatbikephil]

I think someone, somewhere, on a post HT washup thread noted that the best bike for the HT is one you are happiest on.

Hmm. Fatbike or Jones? I occasionally think I should give the Kramp another whirl given how much of an arse I made of the 2014 group start on it.....

[JohnClimber]

Loaded does make a difference though so get a lauf and have a bit of both **
** admits to owning a lauf fork

I've taken the Lauf Carbonara's off my 29er+ because over the years of use it didn't work as well, as the load got heavy and the fork got older it felt like the whole bike was flexing through it's length of the bike. I put a new Travers Prong on the bike and it's back to it's normal self again.

[Hyppy]

I think someone, somewhere, on a post HT washup thread noted that the best bike for the HT is one you are happiest on.

Hmm. Fatbike or Jones? I occasionally think I should give the Kramp another whirl given how much of an arse I made of the 2014 group start on it.....

I've perhaps rather derailed my own thread by making it about me and a particular event, when my pondering was as much about that as a general 'how do you choose?' question. Taking as given that we don't ride a bike we don't enjoy riding, why, if we're lucky enough to have options, do we grab one over another from the bikeshed?

[fatbikephil]

I think someone, somewhere, on a post HT washup thread noted that the best bike for the HT is one you are happiest on.

Hmm. Fatbike or Jones? I occasionally think I should give the Kramp another whirl given how much of an arse I made of the 2014 group start on it.....

I've perhaps rather derailed my own thread by making it about me and a particular event, when my pondering was as much about that as a general 'how do you choose?' question. Taking as given that we don't ride a bike we don't enjoy riding, why, if we're lucky enough to have options, do we grab one over another from the bikeshed?

More self indulgent twaddle....

https://philsbikepacking.blogspot.com/2 ... -more.html

[Hyppy]

I think someone, somewhere, on a post HT washup thread noted that the best bike for the HT is one you are happiest on.

Hmm. Fatbike or Jones? I occasionally think I should give the Kramp another whirl given how much of an arse I made of the 2014 group start on it.....

I've perhaps rather derailed my own thread by making it about me and a particular event, when my pondering was as much about that as a general 'how do you choose?' question. Taking as given that we don't ride a bike we don't enjoy riding, why, if we're lucky enough to have options, do we grab one over another from the bikeshed?

More self indulgent twaddle....

https://philsbikepacking.blogspot.com/2 ... -more.html

To conflate threads, I'd much rather self indulgent blog posts than videos!

[Lazarus]

why, if we're lucky enough to have options, do we grab one over another from the bikeshed?

Straying dangerously o topic , here is my rationa

Is it winter hardtail of some description
Is it local ?.hardtail 95% of time as fs not needed
Away day
Pedally- short travel FS or hardtail( unless winter)
Hike a bike - big FS
Bikepacking - almost never a fs bike but will put suspension forks on hardtail if route deserves it(.and drop.29+ tyres for 2.3 ish ).

Also not ridden that bike for a while comes into it.

IMHO different bikes excel on different terrain. Eg a fs would be rubbish on a gravel route and a gravel bike down nan bield would be carried up and then down.

Its not a perfect.science and you could do the tour de france on a 2.6 " tyred fs( or a road bike for the ht 550) but it wont be the fastest time/ a wise choice
.
I rarely ride SS these days , but used to all.winter, as to many commuting miles in my old tired legs.

[Charliecres]

I have a good variety of bikes but almost always opt for rigid with a 3in front tyre when I’m bikepacking. It just seems a good solution for long miles on a loaded bike over varied terrain. It’s simple, reliable, comfortable and capable of getting up and down pretty much anything I’m likely to want to ride on a trip away.

[jameso]

A rigid 29er with alt (Jones) bars for me if we're talking mixed terrain or off-road riding, because it covers the middle ground better than other options - and when I say better I mean that subjective thing where I feel like I'm enjoying the terrain partly because the bike feels engaging at the time, it isn't limiting where I go or feeling very out of place. It's also the perfect bike for easy off-road trails that the majority of a trip seems to be made up of. There's loads of good 2.3-2.6 tyres that work well on anything between country lanes and hillside trails, and there's a few great XC tyres that feel fine for long (30-50 mile) road stretches at the start or end of a ride, since I like riding from my door whenever poss.

I do have an urge for a full sus for more off-road big mountain trips though. Prorbaly something simple like a Starling. Then I'd have 3 bikes I could use - a 650B road/all-road/bit-of-off-road bike, a rgid 29er ATB do-it-all and a FS MTB for 2-3 day mountain explorer trips. And all of them are great day ride bikes when unloaded.

[Valerio]

I have not ridden HT550.

My thoughts are that looking at individuals results and set-ups can be misleading.
I just got back from AMR where people with full suspension bikes didn't finish or finished down in the GC. People on full suspension bikes reported nerve damage on hands and neck. I had zero, with my "tiny" 100mm fork.
Tor Divide fastest finisher was on a full suss but others on full suss didn't get around, while some gravel bikers did.

Surely the trend is that a full suspension mtb is the best tool for the HT550, but I wouldn't let that get in the way.
Personally, I'm glad I didn't get an entry when I was riding a rigid bike and although I won't try to enter again, I'd definitely take a suspension fork.
(On drop bars, of course)

[jameso]

I'd definitely take a suspension fork.
(On drop bars, of course)

You wrong'un

I got into reading the replies on what bike and forgot this was RE the HT550. If I was riding to finish anything like that I'd be happy on my rigid 29er with big tyres but during the Holyland Challnge (dry, rocky and quite technical in places, sandy desert hell in others, loads of great singletrack, 1400km in 8 days I think) I do remember thinking a FS would be better - I was simply getting beat up. If I wanted to race the HT550 to put in my best time and I had a FS - I'd take the FS. Suspension carries a load more efficiently than a rigid bike and should be comfier. Lockouts for the road sections would be good.

[Alpinum]

Reminds me of this thread:
https://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpB ... er#p324651
 
Going back to those lines, I find they are still valid for me:

[...]
How much does a fs help on a route like the HT550 is an interesting one.
I rode the HT550 in 2013 (when it was shorter) and in 2016 (both times with a fs) and know what you encountered (Fisherfield, Torridon, Tollie, Devils Staircase etc.) and whilst I never rode a ht (hardtail) or rigid around the HT550, I did/do a bit of rigid MTB riding in the Prealps and Alps.
From this experience I see the HT550 to be on the verge of ht vs. fs (full susser). With a fs you'll be less fatigued, especially if you don't possess the skillset to ride with a certain pace through the rough stuff, unweigh the bike in the right moment, pull clean bunny hops across them drain ditches and know how to let the bike do more work etc. With lockouts on shocks the road and smooth double tracks can be ridden without loss of pedal efficiency. I guess tyre choice make a much bigger difference (regarding efforts on the smooth bits*).
I also guess for tech strong riders the difference between ht and fs is smaller than for not so strong riders. 
But your current bike can be adapted: different tyres (more grip, larger volume), well maintained suspension fork (if you're not riding rigid), wider bars, larger rotors and good pads to get more sensitivity and power from your brakes, perhaps even an angleset (to slacken the HTA by 1 - 2°) if possible on your bike. Going from cleats to platform pedals can also be a good option depending on your situation.
I like to think that contemporary trail bike geometry will feed more into confidence than suspension alone. I'd rather ride something like the Sirius (rode a Moxie myself for a couple of years - great bikes), than a XC race fs with a geo from 2015.[...]

 
I mostly choose what I think is the most suitable bike for my trips, but every now and then I plan a trip around a specific bike, kind of the other way round, to celebrate a specific way of riding, eg. SSP, rigid, or even just new tyres.
There's always compromises, like an unavoidable road, when riding my trail bikes, or rough single tracks when riding my gravel bike, or just too steep, exposed mountain paths, where I rather have a rope and harness than a bicycle with me. I guess usually I try to keep the compromises as low as possible by eg. choosing a less steep climb when SSP'ing, less rocky tracks when riding rigid, compared to riding my full sussers etc..

And yet, sometimes I deliberatly go for compromises because the challenge in itself is fun.
But when the planned ride is in itself inherently difficult and provides a solid challenge, I choose the tool I believe is most apt (for me and the HT550 it's a short travel trail bike, fast 29x2.4" tyres). My long ramble seems to boil down to these last two sentences.

*edit: added this sentence now

[Hyppy]

And yet, sometimes I deliberatly go for compromises because the challenge in itself is fun.

Oh hell yeah! To steal the oft-used description of 3 Peaks CX: inappropriate bikes on inappropriate terrain. Our weekly 'gravel' rides usually fall into this category and we find that riders, in a very binary fashion, either get it or don't. We've had folk join then tell us "f' off, this is mountain biking" never to be seen again and others fall a dozen times their first time out but get up with a smile on their face and come back week after week.

Good call linking back to that descending thread. The effect of fatigue you mention there is perhaps the biggest unknown when setting out on any multi-dayer, and near impossible to replicate outside of whatever you're gearing up for. And in some ways relates to the pointlessness of comparing other rider's setups too: for eg, any given ride is gonna take me way longer than a Liam Glen so where a SS rigid setup may be ok if you're a racing snake and only out for ~3 days, but if you're out for perhaps double that and more diesel engine than jet … 

Anyway, I've a couple more rides lined up specifically to help make a call one way or the other, and then I'll just live with my choice. And whatever that is won't be wrong, just different.

[whitestone]

Even just an hour or two's rest can have a big impact on things. Back in 2017 I did some Strava sections quicker than Neil Beltchenko - the difference was I was riding them at say 9am after a couple of hour's riding time whereas he was doing them at the end of a 16hr+ day.

Overall Neil had, from memory, 72hrs riding time. I had 80hrs. The real difference was that he stopped for a total of 11hrs, I stopped for 42hrs! Could I have ridden the route in 80hrs plus just 11hrs stopping time? Extremely doubtful. I rode the final whatever distance from Fort Augustus with Jenny Graham, we were trying to get under 5 days so were going reasonably quickly (or so we thought), a couple of years later Cath and I did the southern loop over several days, so just touring. All my Strava PRs from FA onwards were on that "touring" ride and many were by significant percentages. Just shows how much multiple days of hard riding takes out of you.

As others have said, it's really a combination of things:

knowledge of the area
Knowledge of the route
What bike (or bikes) have I got?
What bike hasn't been used for a while?
Is my bike ready? (Looking at you Richard G! )

A different example: the Yorkshire Dales 300. This is about 50/50 road/off-road. Much of the off-road is estate tracks, there's probably 300 metres (the Gunnerside Gill descent) where a FS with dropper post would be the ideal bike, the rest of the time a HT or rigid 29er is the tool of choice but a modern gravel bike with large volume tyres would be a very close second.