bikepacking .com

[voodoo_simon]

^^^
What’s the long version of that Stu?

[Bearbonesnorm]

What’s the long version of that Stu?

i feel it's important that people get their money's worth

[AndreR]

Interesting discussion!

I'm an avid reader and also a hobby photographer and feel both well written words and beautiful pictures have their place. Stuarts piece was very descriptive and a good read. The mental video (in black and white due to the weather ) running in my head was started in the descriptive writing but influenced and fleshed out by my own experiences and memories of similar places I have visited rather than what it really looked like. Perhaps a moody shot of that stone bridge in the rain with the flashing white of the water rushing under it would have added another layer to the story and given the reader "the" bridge to build their mental pictures around rather than any old bridge from their memory?

In my opinion good fiction writing shouldn't need pictures, and the skill and artistry in that is painting just enough of a picture to engage the readers imagination without describing everything in minute detail and loosing the flow of the story in the process. Perhaps the reason so many people don't read is because they can't build the pictures in their imagination? I've lost count of the number of books I've loved and then not enjoyed the later film version because it didn't match the mental movie I'd had in my head while reading the book. The writing on bikepacking.com is factual and about real places and trips. The "words" part should be good and engaging, I agree. It needs to describe the trip, the terrain and the experience well. I think that good photographs are an essential part of this style of writing, it's about a place and what you might see there and the photo's are a start point for the readers imagination to build from and an extension of the writing.

As an example, we can all imagine a forest clearing, some will have a tent in it, some a hammock or nothing. What ever prompted you to imagine this clearing will then influence if the mental image is rain sodden and dripping or bathed in lovely golden evening light. Every mental image will be very different. With a photo to accompany the words we all start from the same forest clearing and then add personal detail so we still all end up with a different mental picture, but of the same clearing as we might relate to it. I think this is useful in factual writing. Beautiful words and beautiful pictures brought together in the right way produce something far bigger and better than the sum of the 2 parts for me.

Sorry, long winded ramble there, it's a slow Friday in the office today

[Bearbonesnorm]

Here's an example of reality V fiction. i'm sure we can all relate to one much more than the other ....

The prize glistened just inches below the surface. I pushed my hand through the cool clear water and brought it to the surface. My faithful Leatherman made swift work of releasing the golden jennie from its lamp. They say “be careful what you wish for” but the second I lifted the bottle to my mouth and felt a million tangy bubbles explode on my tongue, I knew that I couldn’t have wished for anything else. Tarquin knelt by the crackling campfire, freshly caught salmon and wild garlic sizzled in the pan and the aroma hung like a heavenly low cloud beneath the spruce. Jerome was quiet, he sat with his back resting against a tall tree. A knife in one skilled hand and a half carved spoon nestled in the other.

Today was a good day. Our early efforts had been justly rewarded with a seemingly endless ribbon of singletrack that snaked its way off the open high mountains and lured us ever deeper through the trees and into the valley below. Our camp sat close to the waters edge. A canopy of trees framed the mountain vista that rose steadily from the far shore of the lake. We’d arrived late afternoon and once we’d washed ourselves free from the dust of the day we bathed in the majesty and splendour of our new home.

A smudgy charcoal dusk fell over our camp but we had no need for shelter and sleeping bags by the fire would provide all the sanctuary we required. I lay on my back looking at the stars twinkle through the trees above. My mind thinking of tomorrow and the adventure it would bring. I closed my eyes for the final time and slowly drifted off to the mellow sound of Jerome playing Mumford and sons on his grandfather's old harmonica.

..................................................................

I knelt down on the damp earth and scooped up a mug of dark brown liquid from the drainage ditch that separated the bleak forest from the bleaker moorland that surrounded it. Pine needles floated on the surface but I consoled myself with the notion that I could sieve the bigger bits out through my teeth. John knelt beneath his tarp. He was shaking a lighter vigorously as though nearing the climax of some Satanic masturbation ritual. I took a lighter from my pocket and threw it towards him but before I could say “here you go” it hit him squarely in the eye. He retaliated with a jet black stare from his remaining good one. Dave sat quietly leaning back against a long abandoned roll of rusting fence wire. His usual chatty demeanour betrayed by silence. Regaining his feet, he began to slowly shuffle towards the edge of our small clearing. “It’s no good lads, I’m gonna have to have a wild one, I reckon it’s that pasty” he announced to no one in particular but all present.

Beneath our canopy of gently dripping trees, the air was thick with the stench of misfortune and bad ideas. Breakfast had been a petrol station forecourt affair rather than the full English we’d imagined and a miscalculation concerning our exact whereabouts had resulted in an impromptu three mile time trial along a busy stretch of the A470. Yet, here we were sipping Pot Noodle, eating Monster Munch and drinking out of date sachets of 3 in 1.

Darkness arrives quickly in early March and as it came joyfully skipping through the trees, I noticed it was hand in hand with cold who lay beside me gnawing at my bare legs like a mischievous puppy. “Bugger this, I’m getting in me pit” I said and so began the long-standing ritual of trying to gain access to an uncooperative bivvy bag and then deciding that you’d better have another wee only once you’d eventually succeeded. I lay looking up at the two and a half square metres of nylon that served as my roof and pondered tomorrow. I closed my eyes for what I hoped would be the final time and tried hard to block out the sound of snoring that now vibrated through the forest we called home.

[jameso]

Perhaps the reason so many people don't read is because they can't build the pictures in their imagination? I've lost count of the number of books I've loved and then not enjoyed the later film version because it didn't match the mental movie I'd had in my head while reading the book.

I think this gets at one of the difficulties in trip writing. Great fiction story telling involves fewer or minimal, efficient descriptions so that we can build a picture in our minds more freely - we tend to do that less if we're guided/pushed too much by too much detail, apparently most of us struggle to build an image in mind via instructions rather than letting it come more naturally through suggestion. Yet a trip report often tries to convey the detail in an effort to express the conditions or the scenery. There's a dilemma for a trip writer perhaps, how to convey what they felt and the place without being too descriptive in the literal sense.

I wonder if that's why mountaineering books can be so good - it's all happening in an environment that in some ways is fairly consistent, it's cold, rocky, snowy, steep .. the main variable is how the conditions or risks make the climber feel.

e.g, I like this, I know exactly what you mean without you listing what it was :)

Breakfast had been a petrol station forecourt affair

[thenorthwind]

Excellent Stu I do like a nice bit of photography, both giving and receiving, but sometimes the old imagination needs a workout too. I wonder how that was to read for someone who's never sat dripping in a pub in December trying not to think about leaving though...

I bought a few copies of 'Dropped' (https://www.instagram.com/dropped_mag/?hl=en) but then it disappeared.

Thought it looked interesting, so clicked the link. First post


On the topic of print magazines, I have the same experience as James with Sidetracked. Used to think it was brilliant. Even went to a night they put on in local brewery with Jenny Tough and some other speakers. But got bored and haven't bought it since about issue 20. Looked the other day and saw it's still going, but couldn't find the enthusiasm to buy it.

The Ride Journal had it right. Ten issues, all brilliant and varied, and then they called it. If the house is burning down, I'm grabbing them off the shelf.

[Tractionman]

Yes looks like issue four made an appearance

Screenshot_20241108-151353.png (218.74 KiB) Viewed 2758 times

I should have bought it!

[Alpinum]

Dropped as in "dropping in"?
Isn't that too enduro bro for bikepacking?

Regarding the bikepacking.com group;

ad free for non-subscribers

I opened the website and counted 18 ads.
No complaint here, I find it completely okay, since the (most) content is free and I can even relate to the stuff that doesn't interest me much since it's done well in a very general fashion. Bottom up, they move into the details in many regards.
One of the editors seems to have the same taste when it comes to hardtails and with own insights and prior riding experience of some frames, I was able to truly appreciated the quality of the reviews, since I had insights and riding experience into the same material too. Whilst sometimes it seems like a fashion show (after all it's the industry) they (most of the editors) seem to have an honest and diverse approach to gear.

As so often, there's things to like and others to not like.
I've been asked about route updates on a few occassions and whilst I didn't ask for anything in return, I didn't even get a "Thank you".

From regular contributers to the page I learned that they're elitist.
So... well in line with us lot

I spend more time on reading comments at Pinkbike though. Much more fun.

[Mart]

This prose introduced new and disturbing thoughts into my head
‘ Ballon and Arse Cheeks’ My brains gone all visual

[Mr conners]

I find it a fantastic resource for routes and it has some really good in depth reviews on kit. However, I know exactly what people mean regarding the site taking itself too seriously. We met a contributor to the site in Peru and I've never met someone so patronising, rude and up his own a#se., he was very sniffy about our panniers and only stayed "in the gritty parts of town, away from all the tourists". You're a tourist Mark, and your bike and bags are probably worth more than some Peruvians earn in a year you
to££er
That aside, it been brilliant for us for ideas and inspiration, so I think if you can ignore the hipster elitism it's probably one of the best sites on the web.

[summittoppler]

Funnily enough theres a route from Eryri that made bp.com:
https://bikepacking.com/routes/snowdoni ... and-trail/
Not sure about the title of the route though
As mentioned earlier by Stu, I enjoyed the read as I know the area well so I could relate to it.
Also our Allen has had a few contributors to the site too

[BridlewayBimbler]

I think the site is an excellent resource, with some amazing photography, in depth gear reviews and great routes. But.....................it is very...............American!

What I mean by that is that the overly worthy and slightly pretentious tone of the site and the contributors does grate a bit after a while.

There also seems to be a lot of willy waving about having all the latest, fanciest and most expensive stuff, while also being slightly sniffy and dismissive of cheaper, but perfectly fine alternatives.

Also- and I realise this is purely personal-some of the Americanisms, such as 'bicycle', 'deep dive', 'fair chuffed, 'dialled', and the way 'route' is pronounced, make my teeth itch!

Edit. I've just noted that some of the offending words have been autocorrected to more UK suitable/correct ones!

[AndreR]

This prose introduced new and disturbing thoughts into my head
‘ Ballon and Arse Cheeks’ My brains gone all visual

Sometimes a fertile imagination is not the ideal!

[thesloth]

Good thread!
I like bikepacking.com. I most appreciate the "Rigs of the <insert event name here>" that they do. Very reminiscent of the old Fully Loaded Touring site (...which was life goal of mine to be featured on )

Interesting to read fatbikephil's comment:

They all seem to be about the writer finding their inners selves and communing with the world rather than actually saying what they did, where they rode and what the trails were like.

I've often noticed this. It's particularly prevalent in an American outdoor videos. Mountaineering stuff being probably the strongest example.
I've wondered if people genuinely feel like this, or if its what they think the expressive medium that they've produced requires them to say.
It's a bit like the olde "Are you doing this for charity?" ...because you couldn't possibly be doing it just for fun.
Each to their own, but my motivations are bit more base: spend some time outside, get some exercise, etc.

Also agree with others observations about the high standard of bikepacking.com photography. It's often ridiculously good. Strong bokeh in evidence!
I take way too many photos on rides, but its secondary to the ride. I've tried to drag a larger camera around and found it too much of an inconvenience and disruption.
Kudos to those who can make it work though, I do enjoy seeing the fruits of their labours.

[Alpinum]

I've wondered if people genuinely feel like this, or if its what they think the expressive medium that they've produced requires them to say.

It indeed does seem so. Photos are good, so no need to read the reoccuring ramblings
Like all the

bleak

bleaker

Satanic masturbation ritual

betrayed by silence

mischievous

Bugger

uncooperative

sound of snoring

feed a certain expression too.

Each to their own.

I know I can read books celebrating the splendour of Nature with prosa more than once (My First Summer in the Sierra by John Muir for example), but I'd surely struggle with even 20 pages of an expression painting everything bleaker than it is, no matter if it comes along as a joke or not.

Thankfully, there's writing styles to all topics to suit each readers taste.

[RIP]

Like all the........ expression painting everything bleaker than it is, no matter if it comes along as a joke or not.

Talking of painting.... it can sometimes be easy to miss the artistic licence at play...... things might be a bit more subtle than a literal interpretation..... very boring if all writings were strictly literal.....

[Bearbonesnorm]

'Satanic masturbation ritual' ... come on, what's not to like about that

[RIP]

'Satanic masturbation ritual' ... come on, what's not to like about that

Absolutely. But do bear in mind Andre's comment for that specific instance .

good fiction writing shouldn't need pictures

[Alpinum]

Like all the........ expression painting everything bleaker than it is, no matter if it comes along as a joke or not.

Talking of painting.... it can sometimes be easy to miss the artistic licence at play...... things might be a bit more subtle than a literal interpretation..... very boring if all writings were strictly literal.....

Very true.
We just have to look different at the art displayed at bikepacking.com.
(But something tells me this is not what you meant.)

'Satanic masturbation ritual' ... come on, what's not to like about that

There's some gold;
[time=1731068209 user_id=54]bleaker[/quote]

Satanic masturbation ritual

betrayed by silence

Or a

mischievous

bleak

Bugger

Will add them to my active vocabulary. Thanks