That Tent Question

[Sajama]

Do you want something that lasts and a tent you can sell on.
Have a Hilleberg nallo and it's 22years old , best tent we have and it's still bombproof. Sometimes its better to spend a little more, went down the Great Divide in America on its first trip.
Teamed up with an American group of cyclists, any forecast of lightning and it was off route where possible to book in a motel or resort. Another issue with US tents is rain, mesh inner and fllysheet that's high off the ground.

[BridlewayBimbler]

Regarding Durston X-Mid:

We've used ours on about 25 nights and the zips are already failing. Not the easy fix failure, but the one where you actually have to replace the whole thing since it's fraying along the full length.
The mesh fabric is showing use much faster than any other mesh I ever experienced.

Just spotted this on the last trip and will stop to recommend them.

There's some poor quality materials in use.

That's a bit concerning considering it's a premium product!

Who says it's premium? I think it's cheap(ish) and this is reflected also by the price (compared to other small brands with same fabrics).

Clearly you and I have vastly different views on what is 'cheapish '?
Everyone seems to rave about Durston tents in various forum. I would like to think spending over 300quid on a tent would mean the zips weren't made of chocolate?

There have alao been complaints - that's what I also see, next to all the "it's so great! I've used it 5x ans it was vaguely exciting!" (I felt similar about it for the first few nights out).
By cheap I'm comparing it to what I regard as premium products (although one of my favourite tents ever was cheap) and then off course the build quality is rather cheap, or at least was for the first two generations.
I've contacted them stating the issues I've had and suggested options how I see easiest to deal with them. They need order numbers and photos which I wasn't able to provide, since I've been travelling a bit (with a different tent ). But will be home tomorrow and see how it goes.

Fair enough! I hope all goes well!

[BridlewayBimbler]

Do you want something that lasts and a tent you can sell on.
Have a Hilleberg nallo and it's 22years old , best tent we have and it's still bombproof. Sometimes its better to spend a little more, went down the Great Divide in America on its first trip.
Teamed up with an American group of cyclists, any forecast of lightning and it was off route where possible to book in a motel or resort. Another issue with US tents is rain, mesh inner and fllysheet that's high off the ground.

This is true. A lot .of US made tents just aren't sufficient for British conditions - I.e., blowing a gale and p*****g down! There is at least one US manufacturer -possibly Sierra Designs? - that males a UK/Northern European suitable tent alongside their US one

[JackT]

Do you want something that lasts and a tent you can sell on.
Have a Hilleberg nallo and it's 22years old , best tent we have and it's still bombproof. Sometimes its better to spend a little more, went down the Great Divide in America on its first trip.
Teamed up with an American group of cyclists, any forecast of lightning and it was off route where possible to book in a motel or resort. Another issue with US tents is rain, mesh inner and fllysheet that's high off the ground.

This is true. A lot .of US made tents just aren't sufficient for British conditions - I.e., blowing a gale and p*****g down! There is at least one US manufacturer -possibly Sierra Designs? - that males a UK/Northern European suitable tent alongside their US one

Having lived in the US for a couple of years I'm not sure that I'd go along with the idea that American weather is more benign than European weather. The US covers a pretty wide range of climates zones and has some pretty extreme weather. It may well be prudent to seek some form of more solid shelter than a tent if there's a storm on the way.

Much of the lightweight gear we now enjoy is the product of the North American 'thru-hiking' community and their walking journeys on the likes of the Pacific Crest Trail and the Appalachian Trail. Ray Jardine being the best-known pioneer, and early advocate for tarps and quilts over tents and bags, among other things. Anyone taking on the PCT can expect a wide range of conditions, from snow to desert heat and everything in between.

I do agree though, that some of the lighter US-designed tents with very lightweight poles and ultra thin fabrics might be considered as relatively 'fair weather' tents. In the US the seasons and the weather in general is generally more reliable / predictable than in Northern Europe, where it sometimes feels we can get all four seasons in a single day.

[yourguitarhero]

There is almost no part of the US that gets the same kind of cool/cold/wet/damp weather that we get here.
Your kit gets wet and it isn't going to dry out.

[JackT]

There is almost no part of the US that gets the same kind of cool/cold/wet/damp weather that we get here.
Your kit gets wet and it isn't going to dry out.

Residents of the Pacific North West may beg to disagree!

[whitestone]

I remember North Face tents back in the 1980s, I think the model was the VE24 but can't be certain - it was their equivalent of the Wild Country/Terra Nova SuperNova. The fly was well off the deck and provided about as much coverage as a bride's nightie in a hoolie Our thoughts (not about the nightie) at the time was that it was like that to improve ventilation in hotter climes. The Big Agnes Copper Spur has a much lower fly but the inner is nearly all mesh so the ventilation is handled that way.

One point that I don't think has been mentioned is the significant reduction in headroom when using inflatable mats especially if the side walls have a significant slope. I've a TerraNova LaserComp, it's fine with Karrimat style mats, even slept two in it. Put in even a summer rated inflatable mat and my head and toes are brushing the roof.

[JackT]

I remember North Face tents back in the 1980s, I think the model was the VE24 but can't be certain - it was their equivalent of the Wild Country/Terra Nova SuperNova. The fly was well off the deck and provided about as much coverage as a bride's nightie in a hoolie Our thoughts (not about the nightie) at the time was that it was like that to improve ventilation in hotter climes. The Big Agnes Copper Spur has a much lower fly but the inner is nearly all mesh so the ventilation is handled that way.

One point that I don't think has been mentioned is the significant reduction in headroom when using inflatable mats especially if the side walls have a significant slope. I've a TerraNova LaserComp, it's fine with Karrimat style mats, even slept two in it. Put in even a summer rated inflatable mat and my head and toes are brushing the roof.

All good points. I suspect that many dedicated North American campers will have a warm weather tent optimised for ventilation and flysheet-free desert nights under the stars and - if camping in winter - a more sturdy, 4-season snow-shedding model. Whereas in Northern Europe most people can get by with a single 3-season tent.

Back to the OP's original question, worth having a look at Trekkertent's range: https://www.trekkertent.com/home/17-tents

Designed and made in Scotland, with its lovely camping climate. I'm curious about the Phreeranger replica. That was a great tent, and I have fond memories of the Phoenix Phreebooter I was given for my 16th birthday (looking back that was a pretty sweet birthday gift).

[yourguitarhero]

There is almost no part of the US that gets the same kind of cool/cold/wet/damp weather that we get here.
Your kit gets wet and it isn't going to dry out.

Residents of the Pacific North West may beg to disagree!

Seattle's annual rainfall is around 38 inches
Glasgow is 120 inches.

PNW is wet for the USA but not compared to here (with me being a Scot).

Korea is wetter though

[JackT]

There is almost no part of the US that gets the same kind of cool/cold/wet/damp weather that we get here.
Your kit gets wet and it isn't going to dry out.

Residents of the Pacific North West may beg to disagree!

Seattle's annual rainfall is around 38 inches
Glasgow is 120 inches.

PNW is wet for the USA but not compared to here (with me being a Scot).

Korea is wetter though

120 inches of rain in Glasgow? Really? I don't think so.

[whitestone]

1200mm according to a quick Google. That's around 72 wavey willies

[faustus]

47 inches...Vs 38 in Seattle.

The UK has a bit of a rainfall perception problem, most think it's the wettest place on Earth. It is a wet place, but it's probably because it feels more miserable than it is wet. And the south and east of the UK are surprisingly dry too. London is drier than Istanbul. But everyone thinks it's a wet country, which isn't ideal for water supply. Anyway...tents

[Sajama]

47 inches...Vs 38 in Seattle.

The UK has a bit of a rainfall perception problem, most think it's the wettest place on Earth. It is a wet place, but it's probably because it feels more miserable than it is wet. And the south and east of the UK are surprisingly dry too. London is drier than Istanbul. But everyone thinks it's a wet country, which isn't ideal for water supply. Anyway...tents

If you live in the west near hills or reservoirs it's true that we have lots of rain.
Remember the North Face factory sales in Greenock?
Best selling stuff was waterproofs, the sleeping bags and tents were good ,Mayfly and Dragonfly had one issue the fllysheet but some pertex fixed the fault.

[sean_iow]

47 inches...Vs 38 in Seattle.

The UK has a bit of a rainfall perception problem, most think it's the wettest place on Earth. It is a wet place, but it's probably because it feels more miserable than it is wet. And the south and east of the UK are surprisingly dry too. London is drier than Istanbul. But everyone thinks it's a wet country, which isn't ideal for water supply. Anyway...tents

And as someone who works in wastewater as well...

Annual rainfall figures have no bearing on how wet it feels when you're out in it. It's intensity and duration that maters! If it's hammering it down for half an hour it may well get into your tent even if that's less total rainfall than drizzle for 2 days that the tent could cope with.

[whitestone]

47 inches...Vs 38 in Seattle.

The UK has a bit of a rainfall perception problem, most think it's the wettest place on Earth. It is a wet place, but it's probably because it feels more miserable than it is wet. And the south and east of the UK are surprisingly dry too. London is drier than Istanbul. But everyone thinks it's a wet country, which isn't ideal for water supply. Anyway...tents

Whilst doing my degree I did a year out working for one of the major oil companies (doing oil/gas leak monitor development). Some of the detectors were made by an Israeli firm. The oil company had a test facility including (a rather big) scale model of an oil bicycle that they used for fire and explosion simulations on the moors above Buxton. We were in a conference call with them discussing test results and the conversation went something like:

Us: "Your detectors don't work in horizontal rain"
A rather lengthy pause
Them (hesitantly): "You don't get horizontal rain..."
Lots of eyes looking round the table at our end
Us: "Oh yes, you do!"

My dad used to have a term - "Wetting" - basically a heavy drizzle that got blown about. If you walked to the car it was fine but if you were out in it for about ten minutes you were soaked. It might persist all day but the total recorded rainfall would be maybe 5mm (there's a series of reservoirs near the farm and they'd record daily rainfall so we had accurate figures). Get a month of that and you've around 150mm of rain but you feel like you've been in a deluge.

[faustus]

Yeah exactly that, all things on the drizzle spectrum and rain aided by wind, plus general greyness, all make things undeniably more miserable than a bald rainfall figure can convey. The issue for me (fairly OT, sorry!), is that supplying water to homes relies on the plain rainfall numbers (obviously things like 'right rain' for replenishing supplies exists). So in the south and east of the UK people feel the country is wet, but water in the environment is actually scarce for the population, which is dense. So the UK population is very unevenly distributed for it's water needs, hence Wales and the wet West will continue to be harnessed/robbed for water in the south and east. Much like it's other natural resources of course. Really OT, sorry!

[BridlewayBimbler]

Do you want something that lasts and a tent you can sell on.
Have a Hilleberg nallo and it's 22years old , best tent we have and it's still bombproof. Sometimes its better to spend a little more, went down the Great Divide in America on its first trip.
Teamed up with an American group of cyclists, any forecast of lightning and it was off route where possible to book in a motel or resort. Another issue with US tents is rain, mesh inner and fllysheet that's high off the ground.

This is true. A lot .of US made tents just aren't sufficient for British conditions - I.e., blowing a gale and p*****g down! There is at least one US manufacturer -possibly Sierra Designs? - that males a UK/Northern European suitable tent alongside their US one

Having lived in the US for a couple of years I'm not sure that I'd go along with the idea that American weather is more benign than European weather. The US covers a pretty wide range of climates zones and has some pretty extreme weather. It may well be prudent to seek some form of more solid shelter than a tent if there's a storm on the way.

Much of the lightweight gear we now enjoy is the product of the North American 'thru-hiking' community and their walking journeys on the likes of the Pacific Crest Trail and the Appalachian Trail. Ray Jardine being the best-known pioneer, and early advocate for tarps and quilts over tents and bags, among other things. Anyone taking on the PCT can expect a wide range of conditions, from snow to desert heat and everything in between.

I do agree though, that some of the lighter US-designed tents with very lightweight poles and ultra thin fabrics might be considered as relatively 'fair weather' tents. In the US the seasons and the weather in general is generally more reliable / predictable than in Northern Europe, where it sometimes feels we can get all four seasons in a single day.

This is true. The US probably has more severe weather than the UK overall-climate change notwithstanding
I think maybe it's a cultural thing? The UK is quite often grey, drizzly and windy regardless of the season, which feeds into a perception that the weather is worse than it actually is. Also, factoring in the whole -Four seasons in one day' phenomenon, and it can be quite discombobulating!

[Alpinum]

Since US tents and UK weather are a topic;
Just a couple of hours ago, Tarptent has started to take orders for the new ArcDome.

https://www.tarptent.com/product/arc-dome/

[Alpinum]

In light of the problems you’ve had with your Durston, have you taken that up with Durston and have you had any response? (I think I read that they are normally excellent with their customer service/feedack). Do you think you were just unlucky and got a duff one?

So, I guess the issue will be closed. After many back and forths, this is what can be concluded:
Durston Gear 1. trying to avoid warranty by stating we had ordered our tent via Kaviso, then 2. by saying it was outside warranty (time of 2 years), not once but twice (despite evidence) and then 3. blaiming us for (that's how my girlfriend and I interpreted it) damaging the zips.
We repeatedly sent them evidence of ordering and shipment details. Had to send multiple emails twice and remind them about emails and attachements (like photos) we had already sent. I got so fed up with the blaiming (my girlfriend had already had enough to even bother), I wrote that in product development you first may want to try to resolve the issue through design and or material changes rather than initially blame the customer/user
After throwing some poo back and forth...
...Durston Gear offered to fix the zips and suggested to send them the tent.
They reckon 8 weeks (2 x 2 weeks shipping, 4 week fixing). Well... I can do it myself and have some YKK zips for my MYOG stuff at home anyways... I said thanks but no thank you.

I mentioned and had hoped to have it fixed here (in Berne, by professional gear fixers) and send them the bill, but have full understanding that such procedure would be out of their control and thus not realistic. This was also what I wrote in the end and that we'd take care of it ourselves.

Not exactly what I would call excellent customer service
But let's not forget, this is just n=1. Perhaps I had some bad Karma...

[Moff]

I ended up with a OEX Pantha II UL - first test at the Singlespeed's last weekend.



Got a deal on it, which tipped the balance between options.
Weighed in a 1,500g as delivered. Will sleep 2, without being too snug & has 2 entrances with vestibules.
Fits into the same bag I normally use on the bars, with the poles sandwiched between the bar bag and harness (they're 400mm-ish long).
Might need seam sealing, was misty overnight so no rain dealt with yet.
Super thin, so how long will it last?

[Teaman]

In light of the problems you’ve had with your Durston, have you taken that up with Durston and have you had any response? (I think I read that they are normally excellent with their customer service/feedack). Do you think you were just unlucky and got a duff one?

So, I guess the issue will be closed. After many back and forths, this is what can be concluded:
Durston Gear 1. trying to avoid warranty by stating we had ordered our tent via Kaviso, then 2. by saying it was outside warranty (time of 2 years), not once but twice (despite evidence) and then 3. blaiming us for (that's how my girlfriend and I interpreted it) damaging the zips.
We repeatedly sent them evidence of ordering and shipment details. Had to send multiple emails twice and remind them about emails and attachements (like photos) we had already sent. I got so fed up with the blaiming (my girlfriend had already had enough to even bother), I wrote that in product development you first may want to try to resolve the issue through design and or material changes rather than initially blame the customer/user
After throwing some poo back and forth...
...Durston Gear offered to fix the zips and suggested to send them the tent.
They reckon 8 weeks (2 x 2 weeks shipping, 4 week fixing). Well... I can do it myself and have some YKK zips for my MYOG stuff at home anyways... I said thanks but no thank you.

I mentioned and had hoped to have it fixed here (in Berne, by professional gear fixers) and send them the bill, but have full understanding that such procedure would be out of their control and thus not realistic. This was also what I wrote in the end and that we'd take care of it ourselves.

Not exactly what I would call excellent customer service
But let's not forget, this is just n=1. Perhaps I had some bad Karma...

Thanks for the update and sorry to hear of that unfortunate experience. I am tempted to get someone to bring one back for me from over there so that it is cheaper than getting it here. Might wait to see what their new free standing tent looks like before making my decision.

[Alpinum]

Thanks for the update and sorry to hear of that unfortunate experience. I am tempted to get someone to bring one back for me from over there so that it is cheaper than getting it here. Might wait to see what their new free standing tent looks like before making my decision.

No need to be sorry... thankfully it's just a luxury problem...

If you're looking for a dome, you may want to check out Tarptents ArcDome. But obvs. it's a completely different beast for many reasons.
A couple of days ago I received the Tarptent ArcDome (for winter use here in the Alps and one or the other expedition/wilderness trip abroad) with a solid inner and Syclone poles. If you pay attention to the details, one really must appreciate the deepth of experience oozing from it. Here I felt a big difference to Durston Gear (see my post on p2 https://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpB ... art=25#top ). Seemingly with each generation the X-Mids are becoming better and better, but Durston Gear lacks the many years of tent making experience of other companies (the back and forth with guylines, lack of back bartacking tie outs just to name two issues which needed further itinerations to get resolved) and I guess the announced dome will need a few itinerations before it's free of any design/construction bugs too. Better go with a design that either comes from a manufacturer with more experience or wait 'till a few generations of a new design have been sold & used.

Some background on the X-Mid;
Andrew Skurka designed an extremely similar shape with Sierra Designs. The first prototypes being made about 11 years ago (and in use 10 years ago by Andrew). Around the same time Yama and TarpTent offered tents with the inner-outer offset design, a glance gives this post by Skurka in 2015 (https://andrewskurka.com/sierra-designs ... rfections/).

Concerning ordering directly from Durston Gear, it was very straight forward for me. Fill basket, check out, get the price for shipment and wait. Once it arrived, I paid the regular import fees. This was about 2 years ago and I guess it hasn't changed. If you go with an X-Mid for bikepacking, remember to get some poles for it eg. https://durstongear.com/products/z-flic ... ZHh3WUDJZ_ and as mentioned in the linked post, you may want to think about making a ground cloth to protect the thin (and not exactly waterproof) bathtub floor the X-Mids come with. Easy to make yourself and depending on fabric choice ends up adding about 100 g. The one I made is attached to the corners so setup is easy as original.

[flynbot3000]

Has anyone heard of these guys/used their gear?

https://www.station13.co.uk/store/p63/U ... kylar.html

[fatbikephil]

No, but some good stuff there so good find!

[Oxoman]

Morning All. Newbie to the forum, just starting bikepacking and getting gear together. I usually car camp and bike out from there, usual tent to big and heavy phad x3. I've got a wildcountry zephros 1 which they say is 1.6kg but I'm weighing in about 1.4 with lightweight pegs and ground sheet ( Xmas prezzie ). I see the usual names Agnes, hillberg ect never heard of durston and just wondered what people's thoughts of the wildcountry ones are. Cheers.