Off Topic - siezed, rusted, possibly double threaded, sheared bolt extraction advice!

[Dave Barter]

£100 an hour for skilled labour

We live in very different worlds if you think £100 an hour is a reasonable hourly wage for any human beimg to earn. ( shaf is a nurse and is nowhere near that for example nor is a teacher etc or indeed almost anyone working.

That is not a wage. It's an hourly rate for a service, there is a huge gulf of difference. I don't get paid a wage, I have to find people to pay me for my services.

[sean_iow]

£100 an hour for skilled labour

We live in very different worlds if you think £100 an hour is a reasonable hourly wage for any human beimg to earn. ( shaf is a nurse and is nowhere near that for example nor is a teacher etc or indeed almost anyone working.

£100 an hour isn't what they earn it's what they charge, 2 very different things. That £100 includes paying for all the things employees don't have to, like insurance* replacing tools as they wear out, the van, money to cover time off etc.

* I work for a small civil engineering consultants, just me and the boss. My charge out rate is £95/hour. Our annual Professional Indemnity Insurance cost £18k, so the first 190 hours work I do a year only covers that.

[redefined_cycles]

£100 an hour for skilled labour

We live in very different worlds if you think £100 an hour is a reasonable hourly wage for any human beimg to earn. ( shaf is a nurse and is nowhere near that for example nor is a teacher etc or indeed almost anyone working.

Remember that this isn't a full time rate, it covers all the hours where he isn't working, so he might only have 50% booked/earning. He might only want to work one day a week, etc.

There's another option and one that I've used when I've been asked to quote for jobs - you don't want the job for whatever reason (it's in a bad part of town, the owner has alpacas and you're allergic to them), so you quote something silly.

German Shepard the day before the day he quoted me. Wriggled a big bloke and apparently air ambulance was out. Opposite me there lives a dog that just won't let off. Even 70m away from his fence. He's the height of Danny Devito I'd say and when owners out with him he'll remind me to stay away... Apparently bred to projltect l the Japanese emperors.

Maybe the dog attacl was all over FB. I certainly saw it from a young lad at the masjid cos apparently a lady was recording from bedroom window. In any case... and in other news... I doubt the chap would have been taking anything less than cash in hand!

[atk]

I just drilled out a seized chain ring bolt, where do I get my £150?

[Bearlegged]

It's been paid to future you, who now no longer needs to pay a bike shop to deal with your seized bolts.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Buying a second hand welder would be cheaper .

Even buying a new one would be cheaper .... but it might as well be free if you can't use it

[redefined_cycles]

I just drilled out a seized chain ring bolt, where do I get my £150?

You can now take the rest of the day off. Well done you

[thenorthwind]

Shaff - get a dremel (cheapo ebay copy in any case) and try to grind out as much of the bolt as you can before have a go with a tap. In fact if you are careful and very patient, you might be able to get enough out to pick the threads of the bolt out without tapping - even if you can get the first bit out, that will give some threads for the tap to start on. Be very careful with the tap - if it shears you are totally screwed!

So glad you mentioned that Phil. I actually ordered this from Screwfix for my Dremel (yes, it's not the first time I've had to deal with stripped bolts, but bikes are easy peasy) https://www.screwfix.com/p/dremel-952-g ... pack/65026 but then speaking to thw Mini Restoration chap he said I was overthinking and the tap would take (so long as I used the correct drill bit first which in my case is a 12.8 I think).

Might hold off ordering a tap set then (from Tracy Tools who do quality refurbs apparently https://www.tracytools.com/product-cate ... -and-dies/) and get to work with my Dremel tomoz

So exciting. £150... Even the Mini/ex mobile welder chap said it was a p take!

Funnily enough, I've just bought a pack of those Dremel bits for removing a BB that's well and truly at one with a frame my mate's given me to tackle. Having tried all the usual tricks, bar caustic soda, without success, I cut the end off the spindle, sacrificed a hole saw removing as much of the cup and as possible, and laboriously hacksawed a V into the outer bearing race to release the balls and the rest of the spindle. That allowed me to get better access with a hacksaw and Dremel to extract the rest from the threads, hopefully.

I have previous with caliper bolts too. Utter *******s. Well done for persevering.

One way to look at the cost is how many hours at *your* pay rate would you spend on it. A rough estimate is your annual salary in thousands divided by 20 so £30k = £15/hr.

This is very logical, but that way madness lies. I spend quite a lot of my time wondering if I wouldn't be better off working more than doing some of the stupid things I do

[Wotsits]

I actually ordered this from Screwfix for my Dremel (yes, it's not the first time I've had to deal with stripped bolts, but bikes are easy peasy) https://www.screwfix.com/p/dremel-952-g ... pack/65026

Have a search for a carbide rotary file, something like these-

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/carbide-burr ... gL8gPD_BwE

https://aircraftengineersstore.com/shop ... tary-file/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=carbide+ro ... _sb_noss_1

The high-end ones are expensive, but even a half decent one would be better & quicker than a grinding stone type..

[Cyclepeasant]

Good to be a trier,an having a go Shaf!
Sometimes, for me personally,it's not about the money, it's about the challenge.
It's also an education,we can learn valuable skills with each challenge,the main cost is personal time and some money.
The rewards, if successful,are immense,a bit like completing the BB200 for example.
We are all different .

[redefined_cycles]

Shaff - get a dremel (cheapo ebay copy in any case) and try to grind out as much of the bolt as you can before have a go with a tap. In fact if you are careful and very patient, you might be able to get enough out to pick the threads of the bolt out without tapping - even if you can get the first bit out, that will give some threads for the tap to start on. Be very careful with the tap - if it shears you are totally screwed!

So glad you mentioned that Phil. I actually ordered this from Screwfix for my Dremel (yes, it's not the first time I've had to deal with stripped bolts, but bikes are easy peasy) https://www.screwfix.com/p/dremel-952-g ... pack/65026 but then speaking to thw Mini Restoration chap he said I was overthinking and the tap would take (so long as I used the correct drill bit first which in my case is a 12.8 I think).

Might hold off ordering a tap set then (from Tracy Tools who do quality refurbs apparently https://www.tracytools.com/product-cate ... -and-dies/) and get to work with my Dremel tomoz

So exciting. £150... Even the Mini/ex mobile welder chap said it was a p take!

Funnily enough, I've just bought a pack of those Dremel bits for removing a BB that's well and truly at one with a frame my mate's given me to tackle. Having tried all the usual tricks, bar caustic soda, without success, I cut the end off the spindle, sacrificed a hole saw removing as much of the cup and as possible, and laboriously hacksawed a V into the outer bearing race to release the balls and the rest of the spindle. That allowed me to get better access with a hacksaw and Dremel to extract the rest from the threads, hopefully.

I have previous with caliper bolts too. Utter *******s. Well done for persevering.

One way to look at the cost is how many hours at *your* pay rate would you spend on it. A rough estimate is your annual salary in thousands divided by 20 so £30k = £15/hr.

This is very logical, but that way madness lies. I spend quite a lot of my time wondering if I wouldn't be better off working more than doing some of the stupid things I do

Funny you say that about the BB Dave. Way back when (about 15 years at least I think) I had a retro GT (goes and checks his ebay avatar)... Tempest I think, this one:



Decided that it was too nice not to upgrade certain simple bits and keep it retro. Bottom bracket needed doing, but must've been in there about 15 years. I tried and tried to remove it and it's when my dad taught me the 'wind it in, then wind it out' trick. I've finally understood 15 years later why that works.

Anyway, it never worked for me and the torch I had was probably substandard. It's when I invested in the MAAP torch and soon after/before the Dremel. Never had a problem with bolts or brackets on the bike since. Sadly the cars a bit different and it was an expensive (in time) mistake going and bringing the impact wrench downstairs.

We live and learn and mext time I'll just keep winding with my breaker bar!!

[redefined_cycles]

I actually ordered this from Screwfix for my Dremel (yes, it's not the first time I've had to deal with stripped bolts, but bikes are easy peasy) https://www.screwfix.com/p/dremel-952-g ... pack/65026

Have a search for a carbide rotary file, something like these-

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/carbide-burr ... gL8gPD_BwE

https://aircraftengineersstore.com/shop ... tary-file/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=carbide+ro ... _sb_noss_1

The high-end ones are expensive, but even a half decent one would be better & quicker than a grinding stone type..

Thanks so much for all them links there Wotsits I'll check em over.

[Wotsits]

Thanks so much for all them links there Wotsits I'll check em over.

If you do use one of those carbide files, make sure to wear some goggles as the swarf can go everywhere. Also have a search how to use them as they ideally need to be used at a high rpm.

These are better than the tapered type ‘easy outs’ if you want to have another go at getting the bolt out whole. Just be sure to drill the correct size hole for the corresponding flute..

https://ridgidtoolshop.co.uk/search?con ... ractor&c=0

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks so much for all them links there Wotsits I'll check em over.

If you do use one of those carbide files, make sure to wear some goggles as the swarf can go everywhere. Also have a search how to use them as they ideally need to be used at a high rpm.

These are better than the tapered type ‘easy outs’ if you want to have another go at getting the bolt out whole. Just be sure to drill the correct size hole for the corresponding flute..

https://ridgidtoolshop.co.uk/search?con ... ractor&c=0

Jase (?) do you have a link of how them flutes work please. Thanks.

[redefined_cycles]

Found it (I think)
https://youtu.be/i-CoFEPy9aY?si=QaqaLPMoZTy8Augm

Seems like the ones on the Ridgid website don't ho up to 14mm wotsits. But I could be wrong. I'd resigned myself to needing to just contact Tracy tools and purchase the appropriate tap. At work today earning my £150 but yesterday when I finished grinding I was almost at the edge of the threads I think.

[Wotsits]

Found it (I think)
https://youtu.be/i-CoFEPy9aY?si=QaqaLPMoZTy8Augm

Seems like the ones on the Ridgid website don't ho up to 14mm wotsits. But I could be wrong. I'd resigned myself to needing to just contact Tracy tools and purchase the appropriate tap. At work today earning my £150 but yesterday when I finished grinding I was almost at the edge of the threads I think.

If the diameter of your bolt is 14mm? Its not 14mm extractor you want Shaf.
If you look in the spec for each screw extractor there's the recommended screw diameter & drill size. Depending on how central your hole is, you need to allow for the thread & something for the flutes on the extractor to grip to.
Whats the diameter of the hole you've already drilled?

Going off the product details, extractor number 5 will do a screw diameter 13mm to 14mm. Recommended drill size 9mm. This is one to go for.

I have got one of those sets, but i can't find it atm.

Drill the correct sized hole right through the bolt then tap-in the corresponding flute. Slide the flute nut on all the way down as far as it'll go then turn anti-clockwise..

[redefined_cycles]

9mm you say Wotsits. I'm already too far gone beyond that now. The 9.5mm grinder is now a loose fit in there and mot got the calipers (measuring) in there but I'd say I'm at about 11mm hole size now. Maybe shortly I'll let out a few yelps of relief - Alhamdulillah - that the threads have started falling out.

Or maybe I'll be ordering a tap

[Bearbonesnorm]

What size is the actual bolt Shaf? I recall you said 19mm head which usually equates to an M12?

[Wotsits]

9mm you say Wotsits. I'm already too far gone beyond that now. The 9.5mm grinder is now a loose fit in there and mot got the calipers (measuring) in there but I'd say I'm at about 11mm hole size now. Maybe shortly I'll let out a few yelps of relief - Alhamdulillah - that the threads have started falling out.

Or maybe I'll be ordering a tap

[FLV]

£100 an hour for skilled labour

We live in very different worlds if you think £100 an hour is a reasonable hourly wage for any human being to earn. ( shaf is a nurse and is nowhere near that for example nor is a teacher etc or indeed almost anyone working.

That is not a wage. It's an hourly rate for a service, there is a huge gulf of difference. I don't get paid a wage, I have to find people to pay me for my services.

This is true. Its a rate for a service.

I expect if you sent him a picture of 2 plates and asked how much to weld them together the cost may be different, though we don't know. I suspect his quoted rate factored in all the usual kit and getting to you but also as fear factor of just no knowing what the job could turn into. It could be a total nightmare.

I don't think posting that he's a rip off on the internet, including specifically his business link, when you haven't actually used his service is particularly cool...

Maybe just me

[redefined_cycles]

What size is the actual bolt Shaf? I recall you said 19mm head which usually equates to an M12?

No. Had it double checked by the Mini Restoration guy who was trying to find me a suitable tap. Definitely a 14mm with a 19mm head. It's off a Lexus LS430 which (the predecessor LS400 was about 10 years in the making) they did all sorts of special engineering for. Easy peasy to work on as long as you don't try to impact a slowly winding bolt

[redefined_cycles]

£100 an hour for skilled labour

We live in very different worlds if you think £100 an hour is a reasonable hourly wage for any human being to earn. ( shaf is a nurse and is nowhere near that for example nor is a teacher etc or indeed almost anyone working.

That is not a wage. It's an hourly rate for a service, there is a huge gulf of difference. I don't get paid a wage, I have to find people to pay me for my services.

This is true. Its a rate for a service.

I expect if you sent him a picture of 2 plates and asked how much to weld them together the cost may be different, though we don't know. I suspect his quoted rate factored in all the usual kit and getting to you but also as fear factor of just no knowing what the job could turn into. It could be a total nightmare.

I don't think posting that he's a rip off on the internet, including specifically his business link, when you haven't actually used his service is particularly cool...

Maybe just me

Maybe. I'll delete it. Was just sharing the point about the fact that there is no specific business Dave. The price is £150. Not £100 and I wasn't trying to be mean about the chap. Just that it wasn't for me.

[Lazarus]

This is true. Its a rate for a service.

Splitting hairs as his service will take about 20 mins and is an extortionate hourly rate. ( evenn+ if you include travel) Amazed anyone would pay £150 for a two second weld.

It could be a total nightmare.

Its about the easiest weld you could ever do apart from a spot weld (with a spot welder.)
As for dispaying his prices presumably he is happy to justify them for his and wont at all find it unteasonable and appreciate the free advertising as he has nothing to be ashamed off.
Fwiw off line discussing this everyone i mentioned it to exclaimed how mucn.
Personally i. assumed he quoted an amount that said I dont want to do it but if you will pay stupid money i will.

[FLV]

My point wasn't really that this was or wasn't a reasonable price, nor whether I would or would not pay it.

But that internet flaming and stating things are a rip off is all too common when we haven't used a service.

[redefined_cycles]

Tap and couple of drills buts ordered. Along with an appropriate handle and some advice about using (and not breaking). £62 with postage

Hopefully/God Willing car back on the road in the next few days. Interesting journey. Bike ride this aft maybe to celebrate in advance.