Lachlan Morton on the great divide

[Lazarus]

I hope people stop trying to implement 'rules'.

Sounds like a rule to me
FKT has to be on some version of a level playing field, aka rules, or its meanigless

[redefined_cycles]

I think this could sit nicely here. Talks about Kipchoges sub 2 hour marathon and why it cannot be classed as a world record - not that him or Morton were/are aiming for an official world record. Fascinating read...

In a side note, an ITT wanting/needing to have a level playing field. The riders that are sponsored, means in theory they can train easier without as much (potential) financial penalty. Doesn't sound level to me (just saying- not that I'm losing any records any time soon).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/50460861

[Wotsits]

Whats the difference between the Great Divide & the Tour Divide??

I can see that they follow a similar route & finish at the same place(?), but they're a different overall distance?

[ledburner]

I also like the Crane's approach in Journey to the Centre of the Earth, they used shops and local generosity for food so they could travel super-light.

Cranes now sold out he has a full BBC crew with him & co-presenters....
His longitude walk was interesting...walk north to sth down a 2km corridor. Reservoir in way. Deal with it....

[ledburner]

Whats the difference between the Great Divide & the Tour Divide??

I can see that they follow a similar route & finish at the same place(?), but they're a different overall distance?

different organisers promoting it ?
I thought one us only. Maybe wrong...
[Edit :]
Kinda different organisers promoting it ?
The GDMBR is the route devised by the ACA adventure acycling Assoc. USA.
The tour divide is the mass start..9th June etc

[Bearbonesnorm]

Whats the difference between the Great Divide & the Tour Divide??

Great Divide doesn't include Canada. It's also a 'true' ITT in the purist sense... you can carry a mobile but it must remain sealed and unused.

[ledburner]

Whats the difference between the Great Divide & the Tour Divide??

Great Divide doesn't include Canada. It's also a 'true' ITT in the purist sense... you can carry a mobile but it must remain sealed and unused.

Between us we've cleared that up then....wiki fail on my part ...

[ledburner]

We've clear that up (not), maybe some truth in it. Or just my wiki fail?

[redefined_cycles]

Whats the difference between the Great Divide & the Tour Divide??

Great Divide doesn't include Canada. It's also a 'true' ITT in the purist sense... you can carry a mobile but it must remain sealed and unused.

So is Lachlan doing the Great Divide and not the Tour Divide. Now I've become totally confused. But maybe it's better left that way

[Wotsits]

different organisers promoting it ?

Great Divide doesn't include Canada. It's also a 'true' ITT in the purist sense... you can carry a mobile but it must remain sealed and unused.

Thanks Ledburner/Stu

So is Lachlan doing the Great Divide and not the Tour Divide. Now I've become totally confused. But maybe it's better left that way

I'm the same Shaf, wouldn't know which way i was going in a lift if you gave me two guesses!

And i can't believe that you believe that i think i bought butter....

[redefined_cycles]

And i can't believe that you believe that i think i bought butter....

Now then... This needs some serious discussion. Hoping I might catch up with you at some point on the upcoming BB200

[Wotsits]

Now then... This needs some serious discussion. Hoping I might catch up with you at some point on the upcoming BB200

Deffo Shaf! Hopefully see you soon

[substandard]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lachla ... ide-route/

[Lazarus]

Impressive time from him

[fatbikephil]

So that is suggesting it was on the TD route...
Pretty quick with 40% stopped time. Cue argument as to whether its an FKT....

[jameso]

all the supported/self-supported stuff aside that's an amazing ride. Above all that, I like his approach to ride/rest. I expect you need some real fitness+speed to manage that though.

Cue argument as to whether its an FKT....

ok then...
If he was unsupported for supplies and mechanicals I think there's a claim to the fkt because the debate over what counts as mental support and how it counts for different riders is complex. It could depend if they had it in them to do it 100% solo or not and in both cases I'd say they've proven they have.

It's not the same as Mike's ride though of course. Yet the TDR isn't a total wilderness experience, there's rest and social time available to all along the way. Perhaps that's one way to do it (the film crew thing) fairly, where and when that contact time happens needs to align with towns and lodges along the way similar to a TDR/GDMTBR rider sees.
I'm not even convinced seeing a family member or friend along the way is always a positive, for me it would have taken me out of a mental zone that let me get it finished - contact in the last 1/3 for example would have been emotionally difficult and taken the edge of my momentum I think. When riders have community like the lodges or the toaster house to tap into, or are on social media every day.. I don't think I see Lael Wilcox's or Lachlan Morton's filming as an performance aid relative or additional to that, at least not when they're proven capable soloists already.
But for sure, Mike raced in a cleaner, purer style and that counts for more than the time itself imo - to hold the record with his approach is something that will stand out for a long time yet I think.

[Lazarus]

I don't think I see Lael Wilcox's or Lachlan Morton's filming as an performance aid relative or additional to that, at least not when they're proven capable soloists already.

He interacted with them.didnt he ? They were not simply filming him as he said pre ride it would be weird to not speak to his brother.

One day we will have a paced drafted FKT using a team of riders probably handing the rider food and making camp for them

[whitestone]

The TDR route changes almost constantly, in fact it's often the case that the route gets changed due to wild fires and the like whilst the riders are out on the route. The route taken by LM is 50 miles shorter than that taken by MH. So what? He (Lachlan) could have walked that 50 miles in the 30hrs he had in the bank over Mike.

The TDR has slightly different rules regarding mechanical assistance - because of the remoteness you can hitch a ride from and back to the route. But that's dependent on there being traffic on that road that's willing to pick you up. Having a film crew "in the vicinity" takes that uncertainty away. Not sure (because I haven't looked) if the film crew(s) also had a tracker then it could be determined just how much interaction there was.

Maybe it would have been better for all the film crew to be strangers rather than one of them being family? That was a big part of the "row" about Lael Wilcox - the fact that her partner was also the camera-woman, it wasn't just someone out there filming (there's plenty of those) but someone with whom there's an emotional attachment.

[jameso]

I don't think I see Lael Wilcox's or Lachlan Morton's filming as an performance aid relative or additional to that, at least not when they're proven capable soloists already.

He interacted with them.didnt he ? They were not simply filming him as he said pre ride it would be weird to not speak to his brother.

One day we will have a paced drafted FKT using a team of riders probably handing the rider food and making camp for them

Yes they met along the route. Just 'imho' I don't see that as being influential, not in his case. Maybe he'd say it was - idk. Still, it's more than Lael's film crew did. I think what some don't appreciate is that contact like that can make it harder to settle back into the mindset you may need on a ride like that. Or maybe it really makes no odds to other riders. I don't necessarily see it as a positive thing but it's different for all of us. Yet we don't have the same debates about smartphone use or how that counts as support/contact (and it's often used in the same way as the filming is - rider profile, sponsor returns etc) or for tracking other riders in the races - if it's self-supported perhaps you shouldn't be tracking each other either, but that's well OT : )

But that's dependent on there being traffic on that road that's willing to pick you up. Having a film crew "in the vicinity" takes that uncertainty away.

That's a valid point - imo that would count as a DNF because while random traffic to hitch off route and rejoin is 'available to all', a following vehicle on standby isn't.

[johnnystorm]

Canny move by LM, sets a blistering time, shows that it doesn't have to mean riding yourself into unconsciousness and has carried it out in a way that still keeps Mike's record on top for those that feel strongly about it. Very much looking forward to the video.

[Lazarus]

. I think what some don't appreciate is that contact like that can make it harder to settle back into the mindset you may need on a ride like that

Not sure someone encouraging you and telling you that you are doing great and smashing it and t your followers will love this is as awful as you suggest for your mentality*..if it was you would need to claim his way is harder than Mike's /a self supported ITT?
I don't agree.
Either way we need a set of rules for the smart phone internet age, to create a level playing field for all**.

Canny move by LM

Indeed amazing time and " ends" the debate but not claiming the time but still set it so evergone knows he has it. Seems like a lovely bloke to be fair.

*.stopping at my own home mid lejog ( only time i habe seen family on a long ride) was not an ardous experience that affected my mentality but YMMV re family contact

EDIT
** Far better to discuss his achievements that the rules ( and I am.more guilty than most) so I will shut up now and just say chapeau

[whitestone]

Either way we need a set of rules for the smart phone internet age, to create a level playing field for all**.

I did the Derwent Watershed race a few years ago. Navigation was meant to be by map and compass. You were allowed to take a GPS unit but it was placed in a sealed bag. At the end of the race the bag was checked, if the seal was broken you were DQ'd but you had the device there if the poo hit the rotating thing and you really needed it.

Maybe a rule along the lines of: You may take a smartphone but each and every post to social media will incur a time penalty.

[jameso]

Not sure someone encouraging you and telling you that you are doing great and smashing it and t your followers will love this is as awful as you suggest for your mentality..if it was you would need to claim his way is harder than Mike's /a self supported ITT?

That's kind of my point about smartphones, half the field is on instagram getting support and messages and making calls and no-one questions that. I won't either, each to their own. Just saying it's normalised Vs contact or remote observation like this that does get questioned.

I think excess public / personal support is as likely to be counter-productive, tbh. You have to ride true to your motivation and ability, being told you're "smashing it! gogogo" and all that will mean some riding to ego and burning out. Some need the silence to go through the experience in the right mindset and a call home at the wrong time might break their resolve to carry on at race pace. All I'm getting at is how much of a mental thing a ride that long can be and we all deal with it in different ways. LW and LM can do this stuff it solo anyway, they've proven that.

Agreed that he's played this well. It's good to see riders making their own rules and navigating the ethics esp when done so publicly like this. And I think we all know that Pro riders will end the days of amateurs* holding records on these routes.

*people who have day jobs and don't get the training support of EF Pro, Ineos etc rather than suggesting Mike Hall and others lack experience

[jameso]

You were allowed to take a GPS unit but it was placed in a sealed bag. At the end of the race the bag was checked, if the seal was broken you were DQ'd but you had the device there if the poo hit the rotating thing and you really needed it.

That's the same as the old GDR rule on phones iirc.
Since the ACA cue notes are so good and the GDR was originally raced on well-calibrated cyclocomputers tracking the cues (needing a bit of maths at times on route), maybe the same rule on GPSs as the fell race could work. It'd all seem a bit odd to anyone under about 45 though

Far better to discuss his achievements that the rules

I agree, it's also difficult to separate them and a part of what I admire about his ride - he's handled it well and ridden an incredible ride in his own style.

[Lazarus]

each and every post to social media will incur a time penalty

Hit the influencers where it hurts