Aero gravel?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Here we go ... the 'Worlds fastest gravel bike' including aero luggage ... which looks to have just enough capacity for a clean pair of knickers. Can't help thinking that the bike also looks much more like a road bike with the addition of a few knobs on the tyres. Really can't imagine sending that down Foel Fadian. Anyway, make of it what you will.

https://www.gravelcyclist.com/bicycle-t ... -ARI88ciFg

[boxelder]

Begs the question - How much bulkier are your dirty knickers...........?

It's just the same old 'next great thing to sell bikes/kit'. Aero will be big and would have arrived more widely, earlier without the whole covid delays thing I reckon. 3T and others have been selling it for years.
I keep seeing an advert for some firms aero gravel bike, where they are riding it down singletrack at about 15mph. I think the rider may even be in baggies. Snake oil.
Unless a rider is trained to maintain a proper aero position etc, it's irrelevant, surely. What do I know with my crap pedalling technique and constant need to sit up and take in the view

[jameso]

If you're a pro rider I suppose this might help, something like Unbound 200 is a big thing for those racers and if it's dry it's probably closer to bad UK roads than good UK gravel for speeds and surfaces. Bunch riding and winning times ~10 hours for 200 miles?
The design process and tools used to do this is interesting and it'd be good to see more bikes coming with fitted luggage options as Salsa did.

As a direction of gravel bikes though?

Peter Verdone on gravel bikes - https://youtu.be/C3c8smCp6-s (was sent the link this am, timely!)

Tbh, I like road-bike derived gravel bikes because I like riding on road on a bike that's not limited to good tarmac, but I also agree with a lot of what PvD says. A lot of gravel bike design is heavily influenced by road racing in the same way that took MTB down a lycra-clad road racer's alley in the early 90s. There's also plenty of anti-performance attitude stuff in gravel riding to balance it out, but there's very little looking at how a 'gravel bike' can be better designed for off-road / on-road balance. It's a difficult mix to get right (what is 'right' anyway) and it seems bigger brands default to the racing speed, added stiffness, more carbon etc development routes.

[Lazarus]

imagine sending that down Foel Fadian

yes but probably quite nice to push up - well relative to any other bike - I took a full loaded bike up there ...shudders

Bike looks daft to me but we a re not the target audience as JamesO notes

EDIT: That video he talks a lot of sense about what people want[with a pleasant amount of swearing]

[Bearbonesnorm]

As a direction of gravel bikes though?

https://youtu.be/C3c8smCp6-s (was sent the link this am, timely!)

I'm thinking yer man and me would get on

but we a re not the target audience as JamesO notes

No, I'm sure we aren't but it bothers me that others who also aren't will buy into the whole thing and end up quite disappointed and disillusioned by the entire experience. Maybe it shouldn't bother me but it does.

[jameso]

As a direction of gravel bikes though?

https://youtu.be/C3c8smCp6-s (was sent the link this am, timely!)

I'm thinking yer man and me would get on

I expect you would. He gets some flak for his opinions but he doesn't mess about when it comes to practicing what he preaches. Smart engineers with strong opinions always create interesting things. Also there's irrational, non-engineered reasons that influence my choices in bikes - you realise it when there's a sound argument for something in front of you but from experience you still prefer another way of doing it. Riding just isn't all engineering imho.

[jameso]

it bothers me that others who also aren't will buy into the whole thing and end up quite disappointed and disillusioned by the entire experience.

I know what you mean. I think many riders just think 'well this is what it is' and don't have an expectation or concept of what it could be? It takes some experience to have that idea of what might be better and the scene is full of riders new to off-road riding. People are drawn to drop bars and lycra because it presents an image of health and fitness, it's dynamic and people love the idea of a light bike making it easier for them (in theory). If they enjoy being off-road it's likely to slowly change as they get experience. Mason and Fairlight now make XC HTs for riders moving into MTB from the gravel side of off-road and that's as good to see as it was predictable. 'Beyond Gravel' = old school XC.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Riding just isn't all engineering imho.

Absolutely James. I really don't think he comes across as believing that either - he mentions fun a lot.

Quite obviously 'gravel' is fairly wide open in terms of bikes, terrain and riders and everything from a thinly disguised road bike to a thinly disguised mountain bike carries the name. Personally, I tend to think that some people who buy a gravel bike and who don't come from an MTB background will often be limiting themselves compared to what they'd perhaps be able to achieve had they bought even a fairly basic mountainbike ... I just can't help feeling that some folk are getting sold up the river?

'Beyond Gravel' = old school XC.

Oh yes, give it a few years and gravel bikes will likely look like early 90's mountainbikes

[ericrobo]

Pink ? Wtf

https://youtu.be/C3c8smCp6-s (was sent the link this am, timely!)

I belong to the Anti-gravel Society…

People sometimes are a bit like sheep, and when the marketing boys (or girls) present their ideas and they sell one or two and some ‘journos’ who ride these things promote them, then it’s a bit like a snowball…

I’ve often wondered whether I’m missing something. I don’t want to buy one in order to try one, so I ask questions when I can…

Richpips rode the Cairngorms loop recently on one, so I asked him whether it was lighter and was I missing something… he said none of his other bikes (MTB presumably), and it did have 2.6 inch front tyres….

And hasn’t somebody written a book of gravel rides?

Tell me I’m wrong

[Bearbonesnorm]

And hasn’t somebody written a book of gravel rides?

Yes and a good book it is Eric ... but it's really gravel in name only and the routes contained would be very pleasant (more so perhaps) if ridden on a mountainbike.

[jameso]

I really don't think he comes across as believing that either - he mentions fun a lot.

- He does, he talks about underbiking etc and his blogs have always come across that way. An MTBer at heart.

I just can't help feeling that some folk are getting sold up the river?

I agree. Can't help but feel some responsibility for a little of that but I've always seen these bikes as 75-25 on/easy off road kind of use and for that most of them are pretty good. The 50-50 bike would be so wide open and subjective that it may be best left to the realm of custom builds or micro-brands. Whether it'd ever be big enough to be adopted by mainstream brands I'm not sure. Perhaps not as it's so hard to categorise and identify.

[voodoo_simon]

I quite like the Ridley and in some ways, the aero luggage looks good too (maybe I like clean, uncluttered lines on bikes - not sure on the rear pack though). I would have thought a longer frame pack back to the seat tube would have been more aero but what do I know?!

Gravel bikes does seem to get some bashing on this forum at times. My style of riding is mainly from the house, bit of riad, bit of canal, bridleways, bit of dirt etc and the gravel bike works really well on this. Having said that, I do have a gravel race on Sunday and my 29er carbon hardtail is looking like my preferred choice, more comfort and more control. Horses for courses isn’t it?

Think I’ve said this before but I’ve worked in back shops and it would quite common for people to come in asking for a bikepacking bike. They were a bit surprised when I asked them if they wanted full sus, hardtail, hybrid, drop bar etc etc Marketing in recent years sure has pushed the mainstream to the drop bar gravel bike.

[jameso]

https://www.cyclingabout.com/fascinatin ... e-touring/

Interesting article on all this. I don't use fork bags / packs on my roadiepacking bike as they seem like an obvious cause of drag but I'd not get too bogged down in aero detail. I don't know how credible the aero testing here is, I know some aero wheel brand's testing has been challenged in the past. The BQ tests on gains available from guards seems like a credible point.

quite common for people to come in asking for a bikepacking bike

For anyone under about 45 it's like asking for a touring bike, just without the embarrassment ; )

[Bearbonesnorm]

Gravel bikes does seem to get some bashing on this forum at times.

{speaking personally} I really have no problem with gravel bikes - right time and place, they're great. As I've said before, the issue I have is with their portrayal and the marketing that pushes it. I also tend to think those from an off-road background fall for it far less.

[GregMay]

I like it. Innovation is good. For the people who want to push their limits at the sharp end of a race these things do make a difference. Eventually we get a trickle down of benefits that are good for us norms.

Will it make a difference for the average person? Sure. As much? No. But does that matter? We all like to have nice things, otherwise we'd not be looking at bikes and so forth so much. If people want to own the shiney shiney, good for them.

It's quite noticeable around our area that most riders are now on "gravel" bikes or eMTBs. What is interesting, is that for the most part, most of the gravel bikes are being used on road. More akin to winter bikes than anything else. I still get quite stunned looks when I do ride a gravel bike down a bridleway in the middle of a road ride. But that's the beauty to them. As Jameso said that 75-25 mix of capability is great. For me I can split my commute across most types of terrain, I like that. My road bike, isn't, it could be, but why would I? I like a comfortable bike for an Audax and I like being able to divert on not roads during rides.

As for the pink - I like it. I think it looks great. Reminds me of my old pink ScandAl. I miss that bike.

[lune ranger]

The marketing makes perfect sense. People are buying lots of gravel bikes
Gravel bikes such as that one make no sense in the UK though, we lack the hundreds of miles of gravel backroads that are designed for.
UK gravel is really just mixed surface riding where you will encounter all sorts of ground under your wheels where most people most of the time will mostly be better off on something more like an XCM MTB.

[jameso]

Gravel bikes such as that one make no sense in the UK though, we lack the hundreds of miles of gravel backroads that are designed for.

Would make a great UK road surfaces bike though? Greg's right on why so many people buy gravel bikes, it's not about going off-road for many.
The more I look at it the more I think it's a great audax bike, assuming it has mounts for guards (not a safe assumption)

[lune ranger]

Very true. That’s what I use my gravel bike for - that and the 75/25 type of rides you mention.
If I do a ‘gravel’ ride, like the East Devon Trail published recently on Bikepacking.com I’ll ride my Fargo with 2.2’s

[GregMay]

The more I look at it the more I think it's a great audax bike, assuming it has mounts for guards (not a safe assumption)

Last group start audax I did I had a lot of questions from people over my bike - first one "can you get mudguards on it". Totally unsurprising, as it was one of the reasons I went for the bike over others! Nice cushy tyres also a good thing with bigger spacing on frames.

[fatbikephil]

Apart from the godawfull riding position it makes sense - riding into a headwind will be dead easy :-bd

[survivor]

Pink ? Wtf

https://youtu.be/C3c8smCp6-s (was sent the link this am, timely!)

I belong to the Anti-gravel Society…

I'm also a fully paid up member of the anti-gravel society

I'm not a negative person though. People can do want they want. I was just gobbing off at work one day as I'm the only one without one. I've now took the role as a die hard mountain biker to remind them that they've been suckered in to the hype and basically bought comfortable road bikes..

I've convinced a few but a couple are putting up strong resistance and are unable to admit the error of their ways, despite basically using them as road bikes 99% of the time.

I'll stand firm until victory is mine.

[summittoppler]

I don'r get it. The bike industry is so sown up in the 'gravel thing', that's just ole skool MTBing!
I'm pretty sure if they asked a a few HT550 starters if this would make the difference then I very much doubt it!!

[GregMay]

....and basically bought comfortable road bikes..

And the issue with this is what exactly?

[Bearbonesnorm]

And the issue with this is what exactly?

Absolutely nothing at all if that was your intention .... but many appear to believe they've purchased a capable off-road bike*. While in the hands of some they are (albeit compromised), in the hands of many, they really aren't.

*If they industry advertised them as 'comfy road bikes' or 'Audax bikes' I'd have much less of a problem with the industry.

However, I'm pragmatic enough to think that perhaps some folk actually care less about the bike they've bought and more about the image they've bought into? So perhaps it really is a case of 'not my circus, not my monkys' and I'll STFU

[lune ranger]

I was thinking about this whilst riding home from my night shift on my ‘comfy road bike’ - I definitely like that description, I always try to steer away from calling it a gravel bike because I don’t view it or use it that way.
Is there any UCI rule, such as tyre size that is stopping a pro roadie riding something like the Ridley at Paris-Roubaix or Strade Bianchi etc