Yet another 'Divide'.

[Bearbonesnorm]

... and I've just written a cheque for 2.5k to the Air Ambulance which I think puts the running total to around £35,000

[Lazarus]

I guess the reality, as Dave notes, is the grass routes was free events done by the dedicated and as we move towards commercialisation [ whether to cover costs or make profit] there will be some resistance from those who remember when these hills were all free to ride with mates [ or grumpies as we are termed by those doing the most moaning] .

[whitestone]

and motivational speakers

Eh, I think you'll find my half hour stand-up at the start of the WRT is nothing but motivational

You mean that the participants are motivated to get away as quickly as possible?

[riderdown]

Grass roots events will always exist as long as there are people prepared to put the work in for free

Commercial events can exist in parallel

Don't see what the issue is, Boltonians get to have their cake and eat it, free events and something to moan about....

[Bearbonesnorm]

You mean that the participants are motivated to get away as quickly as possible?

Probably Bob but it's tough call. You can see them desperate to escape my clutches, yet hanging back through gritted teeth in the hope they may win something

[whitestone]

The Sportive world has been "money for old rope" for years.

The local club organise a sportive - £35 with everything done by volunteers from the club - just breaks even/makes a "profit". Costs include venue hire - got to have room to park a couple of hundred cars; emergency cover by St John's Ambulance; insurance; food (includes actual pies not just half a banana) and goodies; etc.

[Mawonavelo]

to be fair to the organiser, they maybe thought "these people are bikepackers and might be interested".
they have likely realised we are not the target market.
[/quote]

To be extra fair…it wasnt the organiser who targeted the group, it was the other way around. See original post:-)

[riderdown]

Except I didn't write that.........

[Asposium]

To be extra fair…it wasnt the organiser who targeted the group, it was the other way around. See original post:-)

indeed, stu should have known better.

maybe he thinks we're going soft in our advancing age.
be staying in a B&B next, with a shower every night, and clean clothes.

[fatbikephil]

to be fair to the organiser, they maybe thought "these people are bikepackers and might be interested".
they have likely realised we are not the target market.

To be extra fair…it wasnt the organiser who targeted the group, it was the other way around. See original post:-)
[/quote]
Right enough - Stu this is all your fault as usual

[ScotRoutes]

I guess the reality, as Dave notes, is the grass routes was free events done by the dedicated and as we move towards commercialisation [ whether to cover costs or make profit] there will be some resistance from those who remember when these hills were all free to ride with mates [ or grumpies as we are termed by those doing the most moaning] .

They still are

[Bearbonesnorm]

Yep, my fault entirely ... apologies to everyone for anything and everything. Weirdly, I bought a T shirt last night that on the front says "sorry about whatever I say next" and on the back it says, "see, told you so".

[Mawonavelo]

Yep, my fault entirely ... apologies to everyone for anything and everything. Weirdly, I bought a T shirt last night that on the front says "sorry about whatever I say next" and on the back it says, "see, told you so".

I like that…the T shirt that is. Maybe I should get one for my Event organiser duties

[Lazarus]

Boltonians get to have their cake and eat it, free events and something to moan about...

Why do you keep bringing up Bolton - its a weird reference.
How much folk are willing to pay for an event is not important enough to me to do multiple childish digs, even though it is for you, so I will just let it go.
All i said was

still amazes me what people will pay to ride self supported
Good luck to them

I dont see it worth this level of annoyance on your part - if i annoyed you can I just apologise and we can move on ?

They still are

Indeed there are just like there are folk who charge

[Dave Barter]

... and I've just written a cheque for 2.5k to the Air Ambulance which I think puts the running total to around £35,000

My bad I forgot WRT. Well done Stu one of my favourite charities

[riderdown]

Why do you keep bringing up Bolton - its a weird reference

It's an old joke from a team that had characters from Bolton and Manchester who would rib each other mercilessly.

As it's causing offence I'll drop it as that wasn't the intent

Good luck to the organiser, hope they put on a great event, and happy trails to those just getting out and riding.

[ScotRoutes]

What we really need to know is....

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.
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.
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will there be a fire?

[UnderTheRadars]

And trails marked with yellow spray chalk?

[Bearbonesnorm]

As important as fires and chalk spray are, I believe the real question is - will there be any mug dangling?

[Mawonavelo]

As important as fires and chalk spray are, I believe the real question is - will there be any mug dangling?

Haha, hopefully no fires, certainly no spray paint or any other route marking (leave no trace and all that)
Probably a bit of cup dangling though.

[pistonbroke]

Not sure why this should get my piss boiling but it does.
There's been quite an upsurge of ultra-distance races here in Spain, both gravel and tarmac based with entry fees in the €100-€300 range where organisers are at best giving free entry or actually paying appearance money to "star" riders or those with a big social media following. In return they get Instagram exposure and during the event these "names" are followed by the organisation being filmed. This generally results in subsequent races quickly selling out based on the slick video production whilst those midfield riders who are subsidising this are largely left to their own devices. I've had 2 instances of this, the first was the 2020 Badlands where I had to drag the organisers away from a bar to get my finishers medal and hand back the tracker and the second was a 450km gravel race locally where I was lying 12th at the midpoint and had seen camera crews on multiple occasions, then I had a kip which dropped me down the order, I saw no-one until the finish line. Seems there's a 2 tier thing going on. Maybe it was ever thus.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Maybe it was ever thus.

Not where bikepacking's concerned Duncan, or at least I don't think so. Once people see the potential to make a few quid, then many will simply maximise said potential. Social media has made this reasonably easy and there's a good number of people who will lap it up. I'm also pretty sure that some organisers set out to fill the start list with as many 'bikepacking superstars' as possible as again, that lends credibility and guarantees exposure which obviously keeps demand high.

[riderdown]

It's been that way in road and track, but that's also to increase the crowd so not directly translatable

Not sure if Dowsett gets appearance money for the Maldon 10 though

[GregMay]

Audaxer looking at sportives.

I don't get the price of sportives, never have. Nor do I get the price of paid self supported events

Baffles me.

[Asposium]

Audaxer looking at sportives.

I don't get the price of sportives, never have. Nor do I get the price of paid self supported events

Baffles me.

Indeed

Charge for the GPX, which changes every year.
Organise a start time and venue
Send riders out into the woods
Meet at the end with tea and a bacon roll.

Wait a moment, sounds remarkably familiar.

Maybe the typical roadie / gravel rider is a little more delicate than a “bikepacker”.