Komoot & winter event

[ianatstanage]

Hi,
I've been planning my route for the forthcoming winter event.
I'm mainly using OS mapping.
I thought I would check some paths on Komoot (free version), to see if anyone else had travelled the same way.
However, despite OS showing a public right of way on a reasonably looking path (although it may turn out to be rubbish when/if I get there!), Komoot doesn't acknowledge it and routes me via tarmac.
I have found this before from previous attempts to use Komoot, which is perhaps why I tend to stick with OS.
Anyone else had a similar experience with Komoot?
Of course, I may just be crap at using Komoot.
The section is from SH892166 to SH914130.
Cheers,
Ian

[Bearbonesnorm]

Sometimes people send me gpx files to look at that are linked to Komoot, RWgps, etc and to make any sense out of them or at least be able to check them, I always open them with OS mapping in bikehike or similar. I find there's enough detail to follow a line but not enough for actual planning with anything other than OS.

Anyway, I can tell you that the section is indeed a track. I can also tell you that you might find a couple of locked gates along its length and also a bridge that you'll need to scale as the steps onto it usually have barbed wire across them to stop sheep crossing. None of that's really a problem though and perhaps par for the course in mid-Wales.

Another reason I favour OS, is that should someone question me about being somewhere, OS will be my defence. People quite quickly backdown when you can show them said track and explain that the coloured lines give you permission to be there.

[ScotRoutes]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet. OpenStreetMap lets anyone be an editor, so why not go do it now?

[Bearbonesnorm]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet.

It's also highly likely that no one's actually ridden it for years I recall there was a WRT GR close by about 9 years ago, could be the last time.

[Bearlegged]

...OS showing a public right of way ...

Can't believe nobody else has erupted with laughter at this bit.

[whitestone]

I've just checked the tracks in question on OSM. The one running SE from http://streetmap.co.uk/map?X=289087&Y=316620&A=Y&Z=120 is classed in three different ways, only one explicitly state "yes" to bikes and horses, the others were "unspecified". I've edited them to "yes". That's one problem, the other is at http://streetmap.co.uk/map?X=289870&Y=314062&A=Y&Z=115 - the track leading north and that leading SE both stop at the edges of the wood, there's no connection! That's probably why Komoot doesn't accept you routing that way. I've added a short connecting path with the appropriate permissions so on Komoot's next update it should be fixed.

I've ridden that track and from memory it's OK - we did it on one of the winter events, Church and Chapel I think.

Edit. It was 2017, here's a couple of shots

[lune ranger]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet. OpenStreetMap lets anyone be an editor, so why not go do it now?

That’s a great theory, and there’s some stuff I’d like to edit locally to me.
In reality the editing process isn’t at all straight forward and requires more than basic digital skills.

[whitestone]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet. OpenStreetMap lets anyone be an editor, so why not go do it now?

That’s a great theory, and there’s some stuff I’d like to edit locally to me.
In reality the editing process isn’t at all straight forward and requires more than basic digital skills.

That's sort of true but in reality it isn't that difficult, just requires applying some thought but it's mostly just clicking your mouse. The mapping S/W doesn't like paths/roads crossing streams or waterways without a bridge being in place so if someone has marked up a drain then you either need a bridge or ford to cross it even though it might actually pass through a pipe. OSM is international in scope so some of the options don't make sense in a purely GB scenario. In terms of paths/bridleways OSM splits out the legalities from physical characteristics plus they have a "designated" category which is a sort of saying "this is the preferred route" often used for horses in avoiding busy roads.

[Bearbonesnorm]

How does editing OSM work with regard to legalities? I meet quite a few people with no real understanding about who can / can't use a particular type of track?

[whitestone]

How does editing OSM work with regard to legalities? I meet quite a few people with no real understanding about who can / can't use a particular type of track?

The assumption seems to be that full access is the default then you remove rights for specific users/uses. This is sort of the opposite to UK access law where the default position is no access unless explicitly granted. That makes editing slightly awkward. The OSM documentation says something along the lines of "be certain as to the legalities", i.e. don't just mark a path as having bike access just because you want it so or have ridden it. I tend to be careful, OS marked BWs get bike and horse access, it's those tracks with spaced dots that are the tricky ones, usually it's any non-motorised access but you can't be sure.

For bike access there's the following options: yes, no, permissive, private, permit, designated, destination, dismount. Most are obvious - Destination is for those situations where there's an implicit temporary right to gain access to the property, i.e. a postman or construction worker.

[woodsmith]

I've played with komoot, all be it only the free version , and always found it to be utter poor show. trying it in my local area between two places where the most direct route is down good bridleway it always directs me down a main A road regardless of whether I choose the mtb, road, gravel or touring icon. Also found when double checking against the OS map it directs down non ROW on ocassions. I'm a long term user of RWGPS and find it infinitley superior.

[Dave Barter]

How does editing OSM work with regard to legalities? I meet quite a few people with no real understanding about who can / can't use a particular type of track?

There is a very good community checking edits. It's a similar model to wikipedia

If you want to see how anal they are then subscribe to the talk-gb@openstreetmap.org emailing list. It gives me great entertainment reading them argue daily about postal addressees.

[ScotRoutes]

RWGPS uses the same base OSM data.

[ianatstanage]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet. OpenStreetMap lets anyone be an editor, so why not go do it now?

I knew about the OSM, but didn't know about the editing. Will give it a go.

[ianatstanage]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet.

It's also highly likely that no one's actually ridden it for years I recall there was a WRT GR close by about 9 years ago, could be the last time.

Ta, looks like a reasonable track.

[whitestone]

Komoot use Open Source mapping so it's likely that no one has added that track yet. OpenStreetMap lets anyone be an editor, so why not go do it now?

I knew about the OSM, but didn't know about the editing. Will give it a go.

Already done those tracks for you See my earlier post for what was wrong and why Komoot didn't route you that way.