2.5 seasons down sleeping bag

[nagasaki45]

Hi all!

I'm thinking of upgrading my sleeping bag. Not yet sure though, just picking your brain. I'm starting a new thread because I couldn't find much info on the forum about most of the bags in question.

My current one is a decathlon synthetic 5c comfort bag. It weighs 1.2kg and takes 11 litres in my 13L seat pack. It's the volume that bothers me really. It means I have almost no room in the seat pack for anything else.

A down sleeping bag with similar comfort rating should do, I think. Budget is ~£200. Having a full neck baffle and long two-way zipper will be nice for versatility. I would prefer not to have proportional fill as I always rotate with the bag and sleep in every position possible

Here are the bags that caught my eye, from cheap(-ish) upwards.
- Vango Cobra 200: 200g of 700fp. Weighs 700g and costs £134. It's claimed to be warmer than the rest at 2c comfort.
- Thermarest Questar 32: 400g of 650fp. Weighs 850g and costs £182.
- Rab Neutrino 200: 200g of 800fp. Weighs 580g and costs £225.
- Cumulus Lite Line 300: 300g of 850fp. Weighs 600g.
- Criterion Quantum 200: 200g of 850fp. Weighs 530g.

The last two got no price on them because I cannot find them in stock anywhere.

I know the criterion is a favorite here. Looks excellent, but for what looks to be ~£270, is it any better than the rab? Compared to the latter it got a full length zip but no neck baffle.
I couldn't find the cumulus in the UK. Buying directly from them it's £175 + shipping and taxes. Don't know exactly how much it will end up but probably close to the criterion, isn't it? Again, any advantage over the rab?
Feature-wise, the thermarest looks excellent. Don't know why but more down feels reassuring. Probably just me... On the one hand, I don't mind the extra 250 grams or so that much if it has all the features that I want, which it does. On the other hand, the rab is "just" £40 more.
Last is the vango. Looks too much like a moon on a stick to me (with minor weight penalty). How can 200g of 700fp be warmer than 200g of 850fp?!? Also, why is it heavier if the weight of the filling is like the top-end bags? They say something about "Thermal Reverb Aluminimised layer", which looks like marketing to me, but maybe that the extra weight that gives the extra warmth and costs less than down? Does any of you got an idea?

So, questions are:
- What would you choose?
- I'm 6', exactly or slightly below the limit for the standard size for most of these bags. Would you recommend going for the larger bag in that case?

Sorry for yet another long help-me-out-I-don't-know-what-to-do post.

Cheers,
Tom

[Bearbonesnorm]

Quantum 200 won't be in stock (anywhere as far as I know) until Aug.

Bear in mind that some manufacturers won't state whether their bags have a differential fill. It is something I'm not keen on but it's never really that much of a problem.

Alpkit Pipedream 400 might also be worth a look. Touch heavier than some listed but a bit warmer, yet still pack down to not very much.

[psling]

- I'm 6', exactly or slightly below the limit for the standard size for most of these bags. Would you recommend going for the larger bag in that case?

Depends how large you are in the shoulders. I'm 6ft and lengthwise standard bags are fine but they can be tight in the chest / shoulders for me (I'm 100kg). Longer bags are more likely to get damp at the extremities of tarp / tent / bivvy though.

[nagasaki45]

Quantum 200 won't be in stock (anywhere as far as I know) until Aug.

That's actually really good to know! Still don't know what my plans are, but chances that I won't need it before mid August.

Alpkit Pipedream 400 might also be worth a look. Touch heavier than some listed but a bit warmer, yet still pack down to not very much.

Skipped this one as the comfort rating is -4c. Sounds too warm for summer use, isn't it? For example, I don't think it went below 10c at night on the jennride. This weekend I'm going to the north downs, and forecast is ~15c at night. A pipedream 300, if existed, could have been ideal.

[nagasaki45]

- I'm 6', exactly or slightly below the limit for the standard size for most of these bags. Would you recommend going for the larger bag in that case?

Depends how large you are in the shoulders. I'm 6ft and lengthwise standard bags are fine but they can be tight in the chest / shoulders for me (I'm 100kg). Longer bags are more likely to get damp at the extremities of tarp / tent / bivvy though.

That's quite reassuring. I'm doing fine so far on an exped medium mat, which is quite narrow. I guess I won't suffer too much from width then.

[elliptic]

Cumulus bags are (were) very good value but I suspect Brexit has killed availability in the UK unless you order direct. Rock and Run used to sell them but seem to be winding down the dregs of their stock now. I've got a customised short version of the liteline 300 (I'm only 5'6") which punches above its weight and packs tiny - I've used it for spring bivvies on Scottish hills quite happily.

I think they default to a slight differential fill (it's one of the things I remember you could customise!)

One thing you didn't mention is hydrophobic protection which is well worth having as the bag *will* get damp from condensation at some point...

[Bearbonesnorm]

Skipped this one as the comfort rating is -4c. Sounds too warm for summer use, isn't it?

Difficult to say as things vary so much year on year but we had some decent frosts this year into May.

[whitestone]

The Vango rating seems a bit suspicious. I've a PHD Minim 200 (way outside your price range BTW) which as a guess from the name has 200g of 900fp down and is rated to +5C which I feel is reasonably accurate. My wife used it on the JennRide. Aluminium reflects radiated heat energy which is a minor component of the heat lost by the human body.

A quilt may be more versatile and will have a much wider usable temperature range. Something like the Cumulus 250 would be in budget even with import taxes. The newer style are wider than the originals so you don't get the sides lifting up as much. You do need a decent sleeping pad though and not everyone gets on with quilts.

As ever it's very much a compromise and what might work for one person won't work for the next.

[sean_iow]

Aluminium reflects radiated heat energy which is a minor component of the heat lost by the human body.

According to the web we loose 65% of our heat through radiation. Air is a very poor conductor so we only loose 2% through air conduction, which is why being wet is such an issue as water is a good conductor so we then loose much more heat overall.

[mattpage]

Maybe consider the Alpkit Pipedream 400?

I have tested both 200 and 600 and while both are good for summer and then winter, I think the 400 would balance the use well for just a single bag.

The 200 I have used down to 1 degree, much lower than the comfort level, but that was close to the limits of the bag and me. Maybe the 200 with a filler could be another option.

[whitestone]

Aluminium reflects radiated heat energy which is a minor component of the heat lost by the human body.

According to the web we lose 65% of our heat through radiation. Air is a very poor conductor so we only lose 2% through air conduction, which is why being wet is such an issue as water is a good conductor so we then lose much more heat overall.

Ah, as you were ...

I did do a search but couldn't find anything definitive and my memory had radiation loss at 20% or so.

[nagasaki45]

One thing you didn't mention is hydrophobic protection which is well worth having as the bag *will* get damp from condensation at some point...

Good point! I assumed that down in that price range is always treated. Apparently, the cumulus lite line has hydrophobic down as an option for additional £26.

A quilt may be more versatile and will have a much wider usable temperature range.

Don't think a quilt is for me. I get my throat soar very easily if my ears are / neck are exposed to cold, so want a proper hood as part of the bag.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Sierra Designs do a quilt that includes a hood but, as you say, a bag might be best for you.

Personally I'd not be influenced much by hydrophobic down. I've managed for, well, always with normal. I suspect it's a diminishing gain. Admit I'm sceptical with no real experience of both. My last Cumulus might be but I can't recall.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'm with Tim and wouldn't get too excited about treated down. I forget which major manufacturer it is but they won't use it as they believe it impacts the down quality. I've no idea how many nights out I've had. Have I ever got a bag wet enough to reduce performance or inflict damage? No.

[nagasaki45]

Thanks for the notes re hydrophobic down. I don't think I've ever got my sleeping bag wet, so as you say, probably won't be an issue.

I see many recommendations for the Pipedream 400, here and elsewhere. Reading more about it, I keep seeing the following complaints:
- Temperature ratings (-4c comfort / -11c limit) are rather optimistic.
- It's small.

Also, does the only-on-top neck baffle make any sense?

Considering it now, I don't mind that the temperature ratings might be optimistic. Actually, it's probably better if it won't be that warm. In comparison, the Thermarest Questar 32 got 400g of 650fp down, and rated 5c comfort / 0c limit. With the same amount of insulation but slightly better 750pf down, I guess the Pipedream cannot be significantly warmer than that. What I do mind is the size. Any experience from 6' people?

I tend to think that something along the lines of the Pipedream 400, or the Quester 32, will be ideal. I'm eyeing the Mountain Equipment Helium 400 and Earthrise 400 as well. Very similar bags to the previous two that look well designed. The Earthrise get extra points for being 100% from recycled materials (yes, including the down), and is on sale on trekitt ATM for £162. Any experience with these?

Thanks again!
Tom

[phy7tes]

I'm a gnats dick under 6ft and the pipedream 400 fits fine. Never been cold in it. Also never used it in winter though! Used at Jenn Ride recently and wasn't too hot. Ideally I'd like something a bit lighter for summer conditions ... would love a cumulus 250 quilt but not up for paying the customs fees.

[nagasaki45]

I should know, that from the moment I ask a question here, until I buy something, there's usually about 24 hours or so
Just got myself a Mountain Equipment Earthrise 400 for £162. It ticks all of my requirements, cheaper, and looks like better quality than the Pipedream 400. Also the most environmentally friendly option out there I guess. Will report back after it get some use.

Thanks again for the help!
Tom