And here's another for you.

[lune ranger]

Stu before I joined this forum I had a nonplussed attitude to fires and was blissfully unaware of the issue of scarring. I’m now a proto-anti-fire fascist. So you’ve changed at least one person for the better. Keep up the good work.

+1

[Richpips]

Yep Stu, I used to be a fan (sic) of fires until I learned otherwise.

[Lazarus]

Another whose views on fires were formed/changed by you and this place
You are making a difference

[Cheeky Monkey]

Aye. :hand up:

It's been an education this place and I'm grateful for it. Fires in particular have been a revelation.

But if you're going to give up because you cant convince the dumb-arses that can't be convinced then you're not the man I know and love

[UnderTheRadars]

As someone who, during the hot summer of 2018, was up all night helping the fire service put out a good chunk of Kinver edge due to some c**** using a disposable bbq, seeing the death and damage it caused first hand, I’m am now rather militant when it comes to idiots like this

[Bearbonesnorm]

Just received this email, so fair play to both Rob and Anna I think.

Hi Stuart,

I'm one of the riders in this most recent Saddleback video which has caused a bit of a stir on your forum, and I wanted to drop you a message to say 'hi' and explain ourselves in some way.

I'm not trying make excuses here, the videographer along with us wanted some evening camp fire shots, which at the time seemed to me like a reasonably innocent act (if a bit of a cliche). In hindsight and having read the thread on your forum I appreciate that this wasnt a wise thing to do. Frankly I feel pretty foolish for not realising this at the time.

For what it's worth, we lit a fire on an area of already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act, but perhaps uploading and sharing a video of it wasn't sensible.

I've not much else to say other than thanks for calling us up on it. You've made me see this from an angle I I otherwise wouldn't have and I'm sure to think twice about when and where I light fires in the future.

I don't feel like getting involved in the forum discussion is going to achieve much on my part, but for what its worth 'thanks' and 'sorry'. I'm seeing this as an opportunity to learn. If you want to share this in the thread then feel free.

On the status of the video... I'm not a part of our marketing department so cant say for sure, but I would imagine we'll be responding to comments and removing it.

Thanks,

Rob

[NorwayCalling]

I live overlooking a large city park with a mature woodland as part of it (Heath park for those who know's the d'iff)....

The problem with fires is now endemic. during the last moth there have been fires lit all over the park, with at least 4 calls going out to the fire service to put them out before the whole woodland went up. This is a very special ecosystem, with bats, owls, hedgehogs etc. and the an increasingly rare "wild" space in the city. The fires issue is new since lockdown, been going to the park for most of my life and this is new this year.

Now I know lockdown has forced many changes on us, “the youth” have always been causing ASB in the park for years, but never fires. Now, hardly a weekend goes by without a new “firepit” turning up.

I can’t face loosing this woodland, so have made a bunch of “fire beaters” (aka rubber mat on a stick) to the approved design and have placed then where they are accessible (in my front garden now). The one in the park themselves lasted 1.5 days before getting destroyed and thrown in the pond.

The weathers back to default – wet and miserable, but towards the end of last month, when everything was bone dry, it was only a matter of time.

Fire in the outdoors must have become mainstream for "the youth" to have caught on to them… cat is out of the bag now I am afraid.

[lune ranger]

Just received this email, so fair play to both Rob and Anna I think.

Hi Stuart,

I'm one of the riders in this most recent Saddleback video which has caused a bit of a stir on your forum, and I wanted to drop you a message to say 'hi' and explain ourselves in some way.

I'm not trying make excuses here, the videographer along with us wanted some evening camp fire shots, which at the time seemed to me like a reasonably innocent act (if a bit of a cliche). In hindsight and having read the thread on your forum I appreciate that this wasnt a wise thing to do. Frankly I feel pretty foolish for not realising this at the time.

For what it's worth, we lit a fire on an area of already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act, but perhaps uploading and sharing a video of it wasn't sensible.

I've not much else to say other than thanks for calling us up on it. You've made me see this from an angle I I otherwise wouldn't have and I'm sure to think twice about when and where I light fires in the future.

I don't feel like getting involved in the forum discussion is going to achieve much on my part, but for what its worth 'thanks' and 'sorry'. I'm seeing this as an opportunity to learn. If you want to share this in the thread then feel free.

On the status of the video... I'm not a part of our marketing department so cant say for sure, but I would imagine we'll be responding to comments and removing it.

Thanks,

Rob

Boner power in action

[JohnClimber]

....... already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act..........................

If Rob didn't think that as "irresponsible", he's just as bad as the ones leaving "the large amount of litter and beer cans etc around."

Did he and the team take out at least some of the litter and beer cans as most of us would have, if we had the ability to carry at least a bit of it out?

[Cheeky Monkey]

....... already scorched ground, which was clearly widely used for 'gatherings' as there was a large amount of litter and beer cans etc around. It didn't feel like an irresponsible act..........................

If Rob didn't think that as "irresponsible", he's just as bad as the ones leaving "the large amount of litter and beer cans etc around."

Did he and the team take out at least some of the litter and beer cans as most of us would if we had the ability to carry a bit out?

Mleh. Nuance IMO. At least he's taken time, made an effort and seems to be listening/learning.

Either that or great soft soaping

[BigdummySteve]

You see Stu, you have made a difference. I think you have to give the man credit, both for listening and replying in a positive manner.
I once bivved to a nice spot in north Devon, the river bank was marred by an old fire site, the embers were long gone, as was the soil to a depth of around two inches. Judging by the moss doing it’s best to inhabit the now hostile environment I reckon I’d take another 2-3 years to recover.
Perhaps a sticky link with some education might help change people’s minds, I’m sure many don’t realise how long term the damage is and perhaps think the grass will grow back pretty soon ?

[JohnClimber]

Perhaps a sticky link with some education might help change people’s minds, I’m sure many don’t realise how long term the damage is and perhaps think the grass will grow back pretty soon ?

Good idea, educate as many as you can Stuart, keep up the great work.
Don't let the idiots get you down

[ton]

hats off to the bloke for contacting you Stu. and seeing the error of his ways.

just like to add, i wasnt condoning him having a fire, but i can kinda see why he did. all marketing innit.

pretty apt considering our and his chosen pastime.

[johnnystorm]

Fresh post from Salsa!

https://salsacycles.com/videos/why_bikepack

[Taylor]

Fresh post from Salsa!

https://salsacycles.com/videos/why_bikepack

And remember "wear sunscreen"
https://youtu.be/EcM3rexWLdk

[redefined_cycles]

Stu before I joined this forum I had a nonplussed attitude to fires and was blissfully unaware of the issue of scarring. I’m now a proto-anti-fire fascist. So you’ve changed at least one person for the better. Keep up the good work.

+1

+2 (or 3 or 10... whatever). Not that I've ever lit a fire outdoors but had it not been this forum I'd probably never have known. The valley of the Wessenden Head surely could've done with some being educated earlier.

On topic of Sportful... I kinda like them and their gear but only cos of Kristian Allegaert being there 'face'. Had it not been for Robs response I'd probably have thought tqice next time investing but seems like an unarrogant bloke who's just been educated (by yourself). So well done once again...

[redefined_cycles]

NB. Good luck with Salsa. Surely they should know better. I've put them firmly in my 'Alpkit*' pile of poo...

*sub standard gear/team = note to self= never to buy (other opinions may vary).

[ton]

bollox, i am gonna have to sell my fargo now...................

[johnnystorm]

Fresh post from Salsa!

https://salsacycles.com/videos/why_bikepack

And remember "wear sunscreen"
https://youtu.be/EcM3rexWLdk

[darbeze]

You make a difference Stuart. Like others have said already. I am now definitely anti-campfire. That is down to you.

I have even been known to "bag it up" and bring it back with me to avoid leaving "waste" behind...

Education is the best tool. My wife Fi is as evangelical as you. You are not alone and it is not a waste of time.

We have to look after our world and not be dicks... Simple.

Si

[redefined_cycles]

bollox, i am gonna have to sell my fargo now...................

Lol... I'm sure they're not that bad Tony. I was just trying to have a dig at AK (sorry)...

NB. How much you want for it

[RIP]

bollox, i am gonna have to sell my fargo now...................

You might be OK.... the date on the film was 2014 I think so maybe they've learned the error of their ways since then.... erm...

[jameso]

Fair dues to them getting in touch with you Stuart. I think the comment about using a previously used spot proves the point about how fire scarring leads to further use 'since someone already did it' and an abused area in the end.

I've used a fire scar as a spot for my own fire in the past and then learned a bit more about why LNT is important. I live opposite a field at the edge of a town which has seen a lot of littering and fires since the pandemic started, mostly young drinkers. While I don't begrudge bored teens letting off steam it's a real shame to see the litter and damage and it's clear how one fire mark is usually the start of the problem, like it's a signpost to the spot and an 'ok' to do the same - as I thought in the past. "My name's James and I was a firebug" I think it's a natural thing for humans to do and many of us will have set fire to too many things as kids.. but appreciation for the outdoors and understanding pressure on space should over-rule that. So fair dues for carrying on pointing out why it's a problem. The fire starter may believe they're responsible but so many who come later aren't.

Mind you, you could carry a proper metal fire pan on an e-bike, if you must... even a few half bricks to put it on.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Morning all, sorry if I appeared even grumpier than usual yesterday but sometimes the feeling of banging your head against a wall wears the skin a bit thin

Anyway, IMO full credit to Rob for getting in touch, I'm sure it would have been easier for him to simply ignore it or even go on the defensive. Anna (the girl in the video) said similar on FB and also said that they hadn't actually spent the night outdoors - not really sure how I feel about that as it kind of leads me back onto the topic of marketing, bandwagons, etc, so we'll leave that alone.

[jameso]

Not a criticism of the brand/video discussed here but reminded me of https://www.instagram.com/youdidnotsleepthere/?hl=en
as an example of how things change in social media, things becoming cliched and a bit of a joke.

Instagram's still got a fair bit of the campfire thing in the same way as those fake camp outs. Bikepacker accounts who post pics of campfires or common bikepacker hashtags that bring up plenty of campfire pics. Seems to be a thing for the social camp-outs and I get that, I know some of the posters who came up in a quick tag click and they aren't idiots. Maybe it isn't seen to be a problem in their case/spot/how they do it -it can be done without a trace if you can BA to carry a pan, or you could have a local spot that's on private land- but the imagery leads to more of it or it being seen as the thing to do. Seems that it's becoming less common though?

I think they way these things change isn't by threatening to boycott a brand or jumping on a rider for a mistake, it's hardly a 'cancel' justification is it. It's of of those areas where many of us learn better behaviour as we gain understanding of our place in the outdoors. Same as crapping next to a stream* or leaving big tyre slides on a footpath. No-one dies. It's just not cool (or it's just plain wrong).

*this hasn't happened in a bike brand promo film, not that I'm aware of anyway