Cycling Apparel Brands - uni project research

[RIP]

I did a forum wordsearch on here to see how much folks talk about brands.
BB brand talk.jpg

I would say there is a lot of love for Alpkit here?

Why?

And an equal disdain for 'Crikey' too by the look of it .

AK? With the odd, er, exception they do their best to help with requests, they're pretty good value, the gear works well by and large, and they seem a nice bunch of people. They need to be wary of getting 'too big' but they're still individual enough too.

That was interesting that word search, nice one .

[stevew]

Dont think of Alpkit as clothing on this forum but more of their sonder range and tarps/tents etc

[MuddyPete]

I did a forum wordsearch on here to see how much folks talk about brands.

Your MBA should also consider PHD .

[Lazarus]

I wanted to see if cyclists, in particular bikepackers/distance-racers/adventure bikers, who I identify with, construct a social identity or group affiliation, and have preferences for products/brands.

The former yes but its really just sayng hey lookwe allride bikes and sleepout that is pretty much the start andend ofthe commonality. The later not at all as it seems to me to be a completely individual decision on kit
People here cannot agree on what bike to take- i mean FS , Drop, 650 B+ carbon TI etc - never mind an actual brand. , what bags to use ,what kit to take or a myriad of other stuff where everyone really just accepts its personal choice. This ranges from debates on fuel type to whether to have a bag or a quilt or a tent ,tarp or hammock. Its everything really being personal- heck reg even uses 9 speed stuff. I still own 26 ers

I will be surprised,nay stunned, if you can find any two of us who have the identical kit or even similar kit be that the clothes we wear,the bags we use,what we pack or where .

[ChrisS]

I did this on the premise that it is for academic research but it smelled a bit of market research instead. I always think it is polite at the end to tell the user why the data helps and how it will be used. Jesus we're a moany bunch around here ;-)

Have to say that every academic survey I've filled out online recently has been proceeded by about 20 questions making sure I consent to my data being used, and then they usually ask again at the end. I thought this was mandatory, but this survey doesn't have them.

There's no personal data being collected so it's anonymous at source. The only personal data is your ip being logged by Survey Monkey to enable your progress in the survey to be recorded and provide them with the option to help with tech issues you may have encountered.

I'm not worried about personal data being collected - just pointing out that every academic survey I've filled in recently has included multiple questions asking if I consent to my replies being used in research, even if the survey is anonymous.

[Alpinum]

I did a forum wordsearch on here to see how much folks talk about brands.

BB brand talk.jpg

I would say there is a lot of love for Alpkit here?

Why?

Good stuff.

Bikebrands must be fun.
I bet Surly, then Salsa

Noooo we're absolutely not drawn to brands. Noooo...


Old world distortion?

from debates on fuel type to whether to have a bag or a quilt or a tent ,tarp or hammock

Debate yes, but once we go out, we all use the same gear; In summer it'll be the Cumulus quilt, Alpkit tarp and one of QBP bikes on Vittoria tyres

[Alpinum]

AK? With the odd, er, exception they do their best to help with requests, they're pretty good value, the gear works well by and large, and they seem a nice bunch of people. They need to be wary of getting 'too big' but they're still individual enough too.

I thinl there's more of brand bonding going on then any of us would like to admit.
For not many other reasons but them playing heavily into/with the bikepacking theme.

Build a niche and own it.
Add in 'not sub standard gear' and a fair price, some 'co-founder Nick has been ... for two decades himself and now' blabla and then some influencers displaying their gear during most sorts of bikepacking trips etc. and well... there you have it, more sales.
It's called marketing. It works. On everyone. Admit it...

[jameso]

^ It does. We all like products so we all have opinions on brands. What I find interesting is how much of the marketing / branding topic I've read about talks about branding and marketing with the Budweiser, Coca-Cola, Persil level of brand in mind and makes strong statements about consumer psychology that I don't think applies as well to brands in an area such as cycling niches. People relate to big consumer brands differently to small niche hobby supporting brands, the small brand can get an emotive following that a big consumer brand looks silly in trying to cultivate. Brands which cross that line as they grow (Raph@?) lose some customer types and gain others.
'People like us do things like this' is a classic line about marketing, yet here we are doing something that is about individualism, yet styles or brand cults evolve within that. It reminds me of sixth form days when the most 'individual' kids usually dressed in the same uniform of rebellion. Or how music scenes came with a dress code, same as any fashion movement. Some interpret it and remain individual and some buy the look. Bike gear seems to have the same type of influences. I ride wearing a shirt sometimes not a tight-sleeved roadie top, or I avoid lycra shorts - I say I do it for comfort (physical comfort, as well as confidence sort of comfort I suppose) but really I'm doing the same thing - 'I'm this type of rider, not that type'. Clothing and brands on our possessions communicate to others and back up what we think about ourselves?

[Bearbonesnorm]

As said, marketing is everywhere and you can't really escape it or ignore it. i included 'bin bag' as an item of clothing in my answers but even that could be viewed as an exercise in marketing as it portrays a certain 'image'.

I think one reason AK have done well is because they've grown alongside the UK bikepacking scene and established themselves early in a fledgling market. Most people entering the world of bikepacking over the last 10 years would have done so to find AK already present. They also weren't scared early on to nail their colours to the mast and say ' we make stuff for bikepacking'. That might sound odd but many companies were reluctant to do the same, preferring instead to hedge their bets and use the term 'adventue cycling'. Bikepacking really was the ginger haired stepchild of cycling for a number of years*


*no offence gingers.

[whitestone]

Like most I've a wide mixture of brands. The reasons for purchase are varied: availability - some years ago there was very little choice, I think there was only Alpkit, Wildcat and Revelate for bikepacking bags here in the UK for example; price - we all like a bargain, Alpkit is good value for generally decent kit; peer pressure - perhaps not explicit but just see the number of "can anyone recommend ...?" threads; Brand loyalty - once you've got one decent bit of kit from a brand you do tend to favour them, I do like PHD for example; fit - some companies' clothing just doesn't fit some people so you go with what works.

Clothing wise most of my "on-bike" clothing is more traditional roadie kit, it's what I had when I started bikepacking and I'm comfortable in it. My Alpkit/PHD clothing is more aligned with the bivvying/hanging around side of things. I've also a lot of kit from my climbing and running days that I'm still using decades later.

[Charliecres]

Just did the survey. I’d echo the stuff others have said. I’m interested in products that meet my needs at the lowest price. I also like simple things without ‘features’ added by the marketing department. And I love a bit of DIY when it makes sense so have clothing and kit that I’ve either made or modified myself.

I’d like to think I’m completely blind to brands and marketing but of course I’d be fooling myself.

Probably the closest I get to brand affiliation is Shimano. That’s based on the fact that they’ve dominated the MTB drivetrain market for years and make stuff that generally works very well (and - I perceive - better than their chief rival, SRAM).

[PaulB2]

Probably the closest I get to brand affiliation is Shimano. That’s based on the fact that they’ve dominated the MTB drivetrain market for years and make stuff that generally works very well (and - I perceive - better than their chief rival, SRAM).

The OEM MTB market seems to be absolutely dominated by SRAM SX at the level I'm looking at. I presumed that's why Shimano finally reacted and created a 1x12 system and then eventually propagated that down through to Deore.

[RIP]

Admit it...

Oh aye, having droned on about my ignoring brands, I'll have to admit like everyone else. To an extent.

If someone said 'bikepacking gear' to me I have to say 'AK' would be my first unthinking response. Doesn't mean I'd check AK stuff first before I bought anything though. In fact I think only my baggage has been AK.

Great post as usual James. One thing I rebel against is large corporates, probably not carefully thought out, but I do. US consumers, and this is a terrible sweeping generalisation, seem to hugely admire biggies and appear to 'choose' something in a brainwashed way: "I'm going to get me a Bud" rather than going for a beer etc etc. The brand is the thing. Ultimately even a verb: to
Hoover etc. Maybe we'll eventually 'alpkit' rather than 'bikepack' . Hmm, maybe I'm brainwashed. If there's 'positive marketing' some clever marketeer somewhere is harnessing 'anti marketing' somehow.

Won't be long before we drift into a discussion about 'free will' and how we don't/cannot have it due to genetics/nurture/environment/quantum-mechanics - a view with which I have considerable concurrence . BBB digression, I love it.

[pistonbroke]

Sorry if I repeat points made earlier but to summarise my feelings. Trying to "market" to the average bikepacker (let's face it we're all pretty average) is like herding cats. Bikepacking is an oddball ridden subgroup of an oddball ridden subgroup, repeat ad infinitum. It's populated by a broad spread of individuals who seem to be drawn to it by vastly differing motives, the only common denominator being the desire not to conform to any stereotypes. We all want different things from our hobby, this was never more apparent than my feeble attempts to herd said cats across Spain. My pre-ride dream of a like minded band of brothers cutting a Reservoir Dogs like swathe through the countryside was quickly brought down to earth by those wanting to ride at a different tempo, eat different things, sleep in different locations, take a different route, you get the picture. I too became a perpetrator of this single minded opposition to "me too" advising one of our number to engage in sex and travel after a mere 3 days! I think bikepackers are the very antithesis of clubbable and may account for the recent suspicion of gravel biking as it seems to embrace roadie like group riding and the ensuing willy waving.
Anyway enough psycho babble, I'm off for my Covid jab, hope it makes me a better person, and then for a ride in the mountains, on my own of course

[ScotRoutes]

The word search is very interesting but of course doesn't pick up the reasons for the mention. A search through the "Bargains" thread would likely throw up many mentions of Alpkit as they have regular "sales".

Some other suggestions would be Wildcat (some personal loyalty a driver on BB), Revelate, Columbus and Ortlieb, all of which get a mention on a regular basis.

Alpkit is a weird one. I have a grand total of 2 drybags from there. A lot of their equipment seemed to be re-badged gear available elsewhere so it never had a brand association for me.

[Lazarus]

- I perceive - better than their chief rival, SRAM

How many of us have both to do side by side testing?Same applies to all kit to be fair.

I have both -drop bar and MTB and tbh the only real difference is SRAM is a bit heavier sounding/clunky [ or positive and firmif you want to sound postive about it] when you change gear - functionally neither brand has ever given me any issue in use. Buying a bike I would not care which it had and if buying a groupset i would be doing it on price not brand.

Alpkit I have two dry bags and the Kanga front harness [all bought on Sale and the later a second [ cannot see why personally and been good for 4 years now] and two mae to fit frame bags - dont think I have ever even looked at their clothing range - dont even know if they do cycling stuff or just outdoorsy stuff

[Dave Barter]

- I perceive - better than their chief rival, SRAM

How many of us have both to do side by side testing?Same applies to all kit to be fair.

I have both -drop bar and MTB and tbh the only real difference is SRAM is a bit heavier sounding/clunky [ or positive and firmif you want to sound postive about it] when you change gear - functionally neither brand has ever given me any issue in use. Buying a bike I would not care which it had and if buying a groupset i would be doing it on price not brand.

I'm the same as I run Campag, Shimano, SRAM across 5 bikes. I have no preference apart from the absolute disgrace of Campag pricing which is where I'm slightly locked in by the investment made in their shifters that I never want to repeat.

[woodsmith]

Survey completed. What it made me realise is that I haven't bought a single "bikepacking specfic " item beyond the bike itself. All my clothing is from other cycling and hiking pursuits and the same goes for camping gear. Does this mean there is zero market for bikepacking specific clothing? No. But it does mean I won't miss it if that particular niche is never filled.

Like many on here ( i could be wrong) most of my clothing choices are dictated by what's on the sale rail/special offers.

Branding/image affects us all. Choosing to dress like a hedge monkey is still choosing to attempt to portray a certain image. But its also a double edged sword. The great popularity of alpkit on here ( granted its generally not the clothing) means that we appreciate the UK brand (and sometimes UK made), its decent kit at a reasonable price and we probably think it shows us to be a discerning buyer. At the same time some of us wouldn't be seen deads in R@pha for the fear of being mistaken for a dentist who got into cycling 5 minutes ago.

Blind brand loyalty is for for the kind of moron who can't use the word phone without prefixing it with an i.

[RIP]

advising one of our number to engage in sex and travel after a mere 3 days!

I don't remember that bit in the marketing spiel for your trip . If I'd spotted it I'd've been there like a shot .

Well AK's secondary marketing wheeze has worked like a dream then. We've been on about them for the past few hours, so hats off to them.

[RIP]

I haven't bought a single "bikepacking specific " item beyond the bike itself.

What makes it 'bikepacking specific'? As we often say, 'any bike is a bikepacking bike' .

[woodsmith]

I haven't bought a single "bikepacking specific " item beyond the bike itself.

What makes it 'bikepacking specific'? As we often say, 'any bike is a bikepacking bike' .

It was bought with the intention of it being used for bikepacking ( something my skinny tyred road bikes are incapable of).

I'm afraid I've got no time for the " any bike is a bikepacking bike" BS. It'd be more reasonable to say a bikepacking bike can do everything else too ( outside of road racing )

[woodsmith]

I haven't bought a single "bikepacking specific " item beyond the bike itself.

What makes it 'bikepacking specific'? As we often say, 'any bike is a bikepacking bike' .

It ( Surly ECR)was bought with the intention of it being used for bikepacking ( something my skinny tyred road bikes are incapable of).

I'm afraid I've got no time for the " any bike is a bikepacking bike" BS. It'd be more reasonable to say a bikepacking bike can do everything else too ( outside of road racing )

[stevew]

I think bikepackers are the very antithesis of clubbable and may account for the recent suspicion of gravel biking as it seems to embrace roadie like group riding and the ensuing willy waving.

Good point about gravel biking market growing, and no mainstream companies attaching themselves to bikepacking, except PEdALED. But nobody I know, or anyone in this survey, has bought anything from them?

But isn't bikepacking just off-road touring rebranded in a similar manner? Now there are 'bikepacks' it's cool to go camping on your bike. Who was doing this before it was a thing?

[RIP]

" any bike is a bikepacking bike" BS.

Oh. OK.

I've not heard a definition of bikepacking that I agree with that restricts it in any way though.

One word. Shopper. No, two words, Shopper, Brompton. etc.

[AndreR]

Q9: image/style? - "dishevelled tramp"?.

Does that not qualify as "shabby chic" ?

Something I think I've noticed is there seems to be a world of difference between "bikepackers" and "BB bikepackers". I would say that the "bikepackers" do fall into a couple of reasonably clearly defined groups. Check shirts and dangle mugs being the most obvious then split between gravel bikes and plus tyre no suspension MTB's and always seen in groups. The BB croud seems to me to be more independent minded, run what works for you or what you got and often seen in smaal groups, pairs or on their own.

Given that you could probably target market the first lot but would struggle with the frequenters of this place?