SS road bikes for touring

[jameso]

I do love singlespeeds, more off-road than on road though. I've had the urge for a SS road-packer for a while now. Simplicity, oddity, challenge etc I suppose.

I have an old Genesis Flyer, a one-off frame in slim 725 tubes, black + white paint, really nice kit on it. I don't use it a lot - local hills are 12-15% regularly, I'm not a bad climber but can't go at hills like that over a long ride. Gear's prob a bit big. 46:18 I think. Harder to balance out the climbing / flat gear needs on a road SS.
Anyone found an ideal solution? Not so much 'what's the right gear' but maybe the equivalent of the 29er 32:18 ratio, but for a lightly-loaded road bike?

I looked up some old FW Evans bikes info I have, in late 30s early 40s a lot of them were sold as "Gears: Two fixed, to order" - the flippable wheel.
Anyone tried a flip-flop freewheel? PITA I thought, but maybe an OK reason to stop and take it all in. Ratios will need to be close otherwise the wheel moves too much for brakes and guards to cope with. Might help keep it adaptable though (and yes, not technically a SS anymore, I know )

(prompted by SS thread on STW - Whitestone said 39-20 worked OK?)

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think the first thing is to fully accept that you will be compromised 50% of the time. After accepting that fact, go and buy a SA kickback two speed hub ... it's almost like having gears but there's no shifters or cables, so no one will know

[whitestone]

James - I "converted" my Pompetamine from its Alfine IGH to Singlespeed, basically recreating the original Pompino, so I had the existing Alfine 39T chainring. I started with a 16T cog but it was a bit much for round here (Skipton) so moved to 18T (not 20T as per the STW thread - fading memory ).

Fine for road and shallow angled off-road. On the Dirty Reiver I struggled from about 150km so that ratio (39:18) was a bit much for me, 39:20 or even 39:22 would have been fine. All very personal though. I suppose just choose the ratio that's least frustrating.

[sean_iow]

No experience of singlespeed road bikes (sadly I'd love one) but don't underestimate the effect of adding the luggage.

On my 29er I run 34/18 on the Island where a typical 20 mile on/off road ride will have 2000 ft of climbing.

If I'm going out on the same trails with the bike loaded I'll swap to 32/18 to make the hills manageable. The only downside is that the luggage doesn't make a difference on the flat so it feels undergeared but that's probably partially as I'm so familiar with riding the same trails on the higher ratio.

[jameso]

I think the first thing is to fully accept that you will be compromised 50% of the time. After accepting that fact, go and buy a SA kickback two speed hub ... it's almost like having gears but there's no shifters or cables, so no one will know

Used to that compromise on the MTB and quite like how it influences my riding, and agreed, the SA hub might be the solution - thinking about bail-outs for long climbs. The simplicity is certainly part of the appeal.

Whitestone, thanks. 39:18 or 39:17 is where I ended on my SS CX bike - too high for a few off-road hills and quite spinny on tarmac so maybe a 42:17 would be OK for road rides that avoid the steeper hills (or I walk). Could pop a 19T on the other side for the inevitable.

Ha.. "I don't want gears! But... I want gears!"

[jameso]

No experience of singlespeed road bikes (sadly I'd love one) but don't underestimate the effect of adding the luggage.

On my 29er I run 34/18 on the Island where a typical 20 mile on/off road ride will have 2000 ft of climbing.

If I'm going out on the same trails with the bike loaded I'll swap to 32/18 to make the hills manageable. The only downside is that the luggage doesn't make a difference on the flat so it feels undergeared but that's probably partially as I'm so familiar with riding the same trails on the higher ratio.

Have ridden my MTB SS with a light summer load on, same gear - agreed. Tend to do it as a challenge to both my fitness and pack planning. And only when the trails are dry and running fast.

[atk]

The audax/rando scene is probably a good place to look. Plenty of folk riding those on fixed/ss bikes.

Reckon 42:18 (~63" on a 700c road tyre?) might be a good place to start if it's bumpy? (Edit: or 42:17/19, as you suggested above!)

I'm toying with the idea of rebuilding my 1x1 in 'road mode'. Have been riding around in the same gear on my Midnight Special and getting sick of cleaning cassette and mech while it's so grim out. Probably go for a slightly higher gearing (~69")as it's pretty flat round here.

[jameso]

The audax/rando scene is probably a good place to look. Plenty of folk riding those on fixed/ss bikes.

Yeah, seen quite a few of them and it had me thinking abut how my SS MTB is great on long rides, the pace mix works out OK. Maybe same on road. Some hills do become impossible though, and the luggage element makes it harder to balance up. Not going as far as fixed though, that can do one : )

...and in saying that I wonder if I should try fixed again, see what it does for the climbing. See how wrong I may be. I hated riding a fixed wheel around town and only did one ride on the lanes, where it didn't appeal any more than the poor impression it already made.

[fatbikephil]

Ooh I do like a good SS gear ratio thread When I had the Straggler SS I ran 36/18 with 45mm tyres. This seemed a pretty good gear for my hilly area and still allowed easy cruising on the flat. My Cross check, which is fixed, has 39/16 on 35mm tyres. Fixed is a bit different as you want to try to avoid leg flailing on descents so tend to gear up a bit.

I'd go with whatever gear allows you to pedal very easily on the flat. This will allow you to deal with headwinds without crucifying yourself. Whatever gear you choose climbs will be hard work (or a walk) but a nice easy cruising gear on the flat will allow you to recover. If you are always having to work hard you're going to burn out pretty quick.

[benp1]

I used to ride to my last job once a week. Was 16 miles each way. Went from gears to SS and my time didn't change. Was slightly slower downhill and on the flat and then quicker uphill strangely. I actually really enjoyed it, but it was unloaded

Bike got nicked, can't remember the ratio I was running now. I have something like 1.8-1.6:1 but that might have been my old SS MTB.

As you'll know, I'm more of a pootler than a racer

[chris n]

I’ve not done a lot of single-gear touring but plenty of fixed audax and a bit of SS/fixed bikepacking. Flip flop gearing always felt like you lose more time than you gain. Just walk whatever’s too steep and learn to spin.

I rode a few long audax on 66” to 72” gears. Nowadays (10yrs and 10kg later) I like 63” fixed but it’s not a fast gear.

Adding weight to the bike makes things a whole lot harder but if you’re fit enough then it’s very rewarding, IMO.

[pistonbroke]

Whilst not strictly speaking a single speed, I built up a horizontal slotted dropout OnOne Scandal frame with a White Industries Dos Eno freewheel in the 17/19t combo and double chainset with 36 and 38t rings. If you run the chain even slightly slack, it's dead easy and quick to swap between the inner 2 rings and the outer without moving the wheel at all. The freehub is quite expensive but a quality item and the noise it makes when freewheeling is divine, like the purring of an asthmatic cat. When I worked in Sheffield, I had a 17 mile commute, downhill there and uphill back, the range between 38/17 and 36/19 was perfect.
Link to freewheel https://www.bike24.com/p2174671.html

[stevenshand]

MIght be worth having a chat with Stu at Shand. Everytime I look, he seems to have built himself another SS touring/bikpacking/audax bike. The fact that he has so many does sort of suggest that he hasn't quite worked out what works though!

https://www.instagram.com/stu_86/

[chris n]

This guy used to be a member over on yacf. I remember he’d toured quite extensively - definitely Australia, America and elsewhere - all on fixed.
http://fixedgeargallery.com/2016/4/taylor.htm

[JackT]

I had a period of fixed / single speed touring. Mostly short weekend trips and minimal luggage. Used a fixed / free flipflop hub with a lower gear on the freewheel, in theory for making it easier on longer climbs and descents, keeping the fixed for cruising on flatter terrain. In the end I didn't flip flop very often due to the faff factor. Gearing in the mid-60s inches. 'Wayfarer' did all his riding, on both road and rough stuff, with 63 inches fixed.

[restlessshawn]

I think the first thing is to fully accept that you will be compromised 50% of the time. After accepting that fact, go and buy a SA kickback two speed hub ... it's almost like having gears but there's no shifters or cables, so no one will know

This is exactly what I have on my ‘single speed’ road bike

[jameso]

MIght be worth having a chat with Stu at Shand. Everytime I look, he seems to have built himself another SS touring/bikpacking/audax bike. The fact that he has so many does sort of suggest that he hasn't quite worked out what works though!

https://www.instagram.com/stu_86/

Is he ~6ft tall, by any chance? : )

[jameso]

63" crops up a lot as an ideal or popular gear doesn't it? My own XL gearing is all in cm/m development. Just to see what works I've done a couple of rides this week settling on a gear and not changing, just seeing what gear worked. Some hills, 3-4 hrs with ~3hrs in the same gear. Few or only short sections of steeper stuff though.

63" is what my Day One SS CX was - 42-18 on a 35mm tyre. I found a higher gear works OK on road unloaded, I'd forgotten how much 'easier' it is to crest a hill on a too-high gear when the road is smooth, 'easy' compared to the stalling effect of roots and ruts off-road. And rolling roads on 25Cs and something around 77-78" is really nice - but a bit high for all-day riding or carrying bags perhaps.

I need a 2-speed. Maybe an FD / BB tensioner combo - a 50/34 chainset and a simple SS rear end. It'll give me the direct easy ride of a SS and a faff-free lower gear when needed.

[whitestone]

39:18 (2.16 ratio) as I originally had on the Pompetamine is 63" and it was just a little bit too high for round here but it's a hilly area so 39:20, ratio of 1.95, or 56" was better for me. 39:20 was fine on-road but a bit hard work when I headed off-road. The fat bike has a ratio of 1.44 or 42" and that feels about right for that bike.

Not sure what I'd have on a 29er, folk seem to have either 30T or 32T up front with between 18T and 21T at the back: 1.77 ratio or 51.5" to 1.4 ratio or 41".

[jameso]

52" on my 29er from an oval 34 ring and 19 rear on 29 x 2.3. Which is (sort of) interesting to know as the 34-17 on a 700 x 25c bail out gear I'd looked at before works out the same. Thinking about local road climbs (Chilterns, ie not that hilly really) on the 29er SS at the end of a long day - loaded, repeated climbs like that would be too much. Compromises... but having 2 gears with up to 16T variation up front looks like it may not be too compromised all in all.

Duncan, that dual freewheel looks ideal - I could have a second pair of gears for somewhere a bit hillier w/o needing to swap anything around. My 'SS' road packer could be a 4-speed What a cop-out...

[FLV]

I wonder how easy / ish it would be to design a simple tensioner to allow a 'manual' gear change, ideally with your heel but by hand for a start.
I realise that sounds like I'm being sarcastic and talking about a derailleur, but I'm not

If the tension is taken care of by a sprung arm, the position of a Jockey wheel could be on a 1/4 turn thread. The thread path would be similar to that of a motorcycle race fairing 1/4 turn fixing. It'd need a 'seat' between each position. If the shaft that the jockey and 1/4 turn was on is also sprung, then you could turn it by hand and start pedalling, or lift the bike and pedal and it would shift. Maybe.... Just an idle thought.

[jameso]

I wonder how easy / ish it would be to design a simple tensioner to allow a 'manual' gear change, ..

It would be interesting to see what could come of that idea. A while back I was thinking about how to get time off work for a big ride and thinking about simplified touring bike gearing. Using a tensioner that can be set to run a narrow range of chainline over a series of SS sprockets seemed a valid route. Hard to get the range compared to a rear mech though. SS sprocket stacks or front chainrings can give ~100% range max - 22/32/44 up front, or 14-24 at the rear, wider if you break up an old cassette for (weaker) sprockets? Advantage of a tensioner as you describe it could be ability to use front and rear gears, ie a system that allows a chunky SS chain + sprocket + ring durability a well as some gear range.

I ended up using a stack of 3 SS sprockets with a 9s sprocket either side for the TDR, so a 5pd with an oval 34T up front. It worked well, no need to replace a worn chain etc and very tolerant of running dirty or dry, but I think plenty of riders finish that route on their original (standard-spec) drivetrain anyway. For me these simplified systems may be about the reassurance of reliability more than a real need - and the mech is still the part most likely to end a ride. Most of the same risks apply to a rear-mount tensioner I think?

A thread on STW had me on about the high end, wide ratio 3spd hub, like a Nexus + XTR mashup ....again

[FLV]

I suspect the risk is marginally less on a tensioner, lost less moving parts, sticks out less, not reliant on an external force ( cable and shifter) to operate. But you are correct that it's not as simple as nowt.

There's probably no legs in it, which is why I've never done anything with it.

Many moons ago I managed to use an iscg mounted tension device. It was a faff though.

A light, reliable 2 to 3 speed gear hub sounds ideal to me. For my riding (currently) I'm happy with a general riding gear, it's an 'overdrive' for long road or ex railway sections I fancy

[Javi]

My advice is to start on whatever the ratio the bike comes and ride it on different types of terrain, with and without bags, road, gravel, or mtb territory only. Be prepared to swap sprockets to compare.
I've been riding a road ss bike with tyre clearance up to 40mm over all types of terrain.
Thinking about the ratio to use on an event crossing Europe north to south during 2018 summer I rode from London to Bristol bespoked handmade bike show, then rode a hilly 1 day long gravellish ride with others in south Wales(without bikepacking bags but lots of weight, lights, clothing, food) and back to London over a few days. It convinced me I'd be fine to cross Europe on 38x18.
I've done a recent long ride fully loaded with a 38x15 but struggled a lot on climbs. Now running a spinny 38x23 on my flat commute because sometimes I go for off road hilly bits and also I get less tired.
Did some CX racing last 2 winters and used 38x19 or 20 for fast acceleration out of corners.
Others will move a bigger ratio, not me, I'm lightweight.
Using paragorn sliding dropouts and bikecalc for gear table comparison.

[Scud]

I think for touring a Dinglespeed would be great, i run a Bombtrack Needle road bike with 46/16 and Singular Peregrine on 45c with 40/16 which works for me, but then i live in Norfolk and only do 1000m of climbing in a ride at most locally.

The new Peregrine frame would make a lovely tourer? Love the bike built by @eharatetsou on instagram.