You can put a positive spin on owt.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Just reading about a waterproof jacket and in the description it says "Low breathability to increase core temperature when moving slowly or stationary"

Proof that you really can put a positive spin on pretty much anything

[johnnystorm]

I'm surprised they didn't also mention about the weight loss benefits of this feature!

[TheBrownDog]

Just being honest I reckon. So much outdoor stuff over-promises and under delivers on its breathability.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Just being honest I reckon.

Honest? They've made it sound like a real bonus which in itself is somewhat misleading as a lack of breathability to will do absolutely nothing to 'increase core temperature'. More likely the opposite once you begin to sweat.

[Lazarus]

depends on who or what it is aimed at
Probably not a bad feature if a wateproof for say someone fishing or wtatching football awful for someone cycling

[Bearbonesnorm]

Probably not a bad feature if a wateproof for say someone fishing or wtatching football awful for someone cycling

The adventure racing crowd.

[Lazarus]

In that case yes its a totally terrible idea that is utterly stupid

[johnnystorm]

depends on who or what it is aimed at
Probably not a bad feature if a wateproof for say someone fishing or wtatching football awful for someone cycling

There's an upside to being warm, not one to being sweaty. Does breathability have to equal less warm?

Can we see the product in question? I'm intrigued!

[voodoo_simon]

Is it this
https://ratracestore.com/clothing/water ... users.html

[Mariner]

That falls under the 'it's not a bug it's a feature' category.
Think of it as a beta version jacket.
Softies have been using this excuse for ages.
(I expect one will be a long to expand? )

[Bearbonesnorm]

Does breathability have to equal less warm?

No reason why a breathable windproof fabric would be less warm than a non-breathable or less breathable one.

I can see the angle they're using and I myself have used bin bags to produce a vapour barrier effect and thus a warm if somewhat damp micro-climate but it's better worn next to the skin ... and to be honest, only when things are really dire.

https://ratracestore.com/clothing/water ... 2wZy3JkzjQ

[sean_iow]

They do say

This emergency waterproof is ideal when you’re moving slowly or stationary

So for emergencies it could be better especially if it's actually waterproof, unlike the majority of breathable waterproofs I've owned... but then if it's just for emergency use bin bag material would be lighter and cheaper

[johnnystorm]

Does breathability have to equal less warm?

No reason why a breathable windproof fabric would be less warm than a non-breathable or less breathable one.

I can see the angle they're using and I myself have used bin bags to produce a vapour barrier effect and thus a warm if somewhat damp micro-climate but it's better worn next to the skin ... and to be honest, only when things are really dire.

https://ratracestore.com/clothing/water ... 2wZy3JkzjQ

That's what I thought, apart from people selling literal "wet suits" I've never seen anyone try and pitch that feature.

My insta feed has been under a barrage of their promoted posts. I took a quick look but nothing seemed worth a second glance.

[johnnystorm]

Does breathability have to equal less warm?

No reason why a breathable windproof fabric would be less warm than a non-breathable or less breathable one.

I can see the angle they're using and I myself have used bin bags to produce a vapour barrier effect and thus a warm if somewhat damp micro-climate but it's better worn next to the skin ... and to be honest, only when things are really dire.

https://ratracestore.com/clothing/water ... 2wZy3JkzjQ

That's what I thought, apart from people selling literal "wet suits" I've never seen anyone try and pitch that feature.

My insta feed has been under a barrage of their promoted posts. I took a quick look but nothing seemed worth a second glance.
*edit* nope, that was another brand.

[Bearbonesnorm]

So for emergencies it could be better

What makes it better? I wasn't aware that damp clothes was a bonus in emergency situations

[sean_iow]

I rode past their hq on last year's Dales Divide, this doesn't add anything to this discussion though

[sean_iow]

What makes it better? I wasn't aware that damp clothes was a bonus in emergency situations

Well, you'd be damp and warmer than in a breathable one? If breathable works by letting water vapour through it must also have latent heat with it? Certainly warmer to keep the water vapour in than to have freezing cold rain coming in, which always seems to be the case these days

I'm sure when I was in the scouts and had an old school non-breathable waterproof I might have been damp but I don't remember shivering uncontrollably as I end up doing now, but perhaps I've just blanked it from my memory

[Lazarus]

what he said the escaping water is vapour and therefore both warmer than the ambient air and also posseing energy you gave it from your heat ; energy/heat is escaping with a breathable that is not with a non brethable
Will it be noticeably warmer when sedantry ?
Not a clue
Will it be colder than a breathable if you get damp inside- almost definetly

Disappointingly no weights stated on the link and i have no idea what "rat race" is

[viragevitesse]

I remember reading this article a while back, yes OK its Bike Radar but not everything on these big corporate websites is necessarily bullshit:
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/prot ... -the-rain/
Basically saying not to worry about getting wet from rain, but a lightweight windproof outer layer is going to do a better job of keeping you warm while moving. You can add an insulation underneath for when you are not moving and not generating as much internal body heat.
Layering of clothing is very similar to the way that we (aspire to) build climate responsive houses which must respond to a variety of different weather conditions. We have a layer of insulation to keep warmth in and heat out, a breathable water proof membrane to let moist air out but not let rain in, and then an outer cladding for durable protection against impact from rain, sun, snow, hail. Then windows that we can open to control ventilation and release heat.
Back to the original comment of this thread, someone recently posted a link to a Bill Hicks bit about his cynical view on marketing. I just think about that everytime someone puts a spin on a product.

[ScotRoutes]

Also...

a smock design makes this easy to get on and off in poor conditions

Really? Goes against all my experience.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Well, you'd be damp and warmer than in a breathable one? If breathable works by letting water vapour through it must also have latent heat with it? Certainly warmer to keep the water vapour in than to have freezing cold rain coming in, which always seems to be the case these days

Oh yes, I'd much prefer a very waterproof jacket that isn't quite as breathable as keeping gallons of rain out in return for a little sweat in, always seems like a fair trade especially over long days or multi-days. However, we have nothing here to make us think that this jacket is in anyway more waterproof than a breathable one with the same HH and general features.