Ethical and Environmental Options

[Boab]

As the New Year is nearly here, I'm looking to start collecting the gear I need to start getting out for some adventures. I made a decision early in the month, that I'd rather give my money to smaller, more ethically and environmentally focused companies, that, where possible, make their equipment in the UK. I fully appreciated that this means I may end up paying more for things, and that some things can't be made cost effectively in the UK, so I'll end up paying more for rebranded generic catalogue products; I'm (mostly) OK with this. I also appreciate that this may cause a tension between wanting to buy the best of something, but buying something not as good, due to it fulfilling my made up criteria. I maybe cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I want to support small, local and independent companies.

Having said all that, I don't actually know which companies fit this criteria. I'm after various bags (saddle pack, half frame bag, fuel pods, handlebar roll) to drape off the bike, for various types of riding. I'm also after some camping gear, like an inflatable mat, stove, and a tarp. I'm just not 100% sure who I should be buying from, and what I should be buying from them. By which I mean, some companies look like they make some of their gear, but other bits look generic, how do you tell which is which.

So, that's all rather a long winded and hang wringing way of asking, which companies should I be looking to buy my gear from...? Preferably, UK based, UK made, with proper ethical and environmental credentials.

[whitestone]

It's a minefield full of cow pats

Probably the only way you'll figure out generic stuff is by looking for say sleeping mats and if you see several "brands" that all look very similar, have similar weights and specifications then it's likely that they are just rebranded generic imports.

You can't really go by brand either - Alpkit sell a mixture of UK made stuff and rebranded generic items, not a criticism, just observation. I seriously doubt they (or any other UK seller) has a pressing plant producing titanium mugs for example. Cottage manufacturers like Wildcat, Restrap, StraightCut, Trekkertent who specialise in one area are more likely to be UK made.

Then you've where the materials are sourced from. For instance *all* cuben fibre (DCF) comes from one manufacturer so if you want to use that you've no options. Similarly where are silnylon, VX21, etc. made? Ultimately most of that will be manufactured in China, Taiwan, Vietnam or wherever else low labour rates, government incentives allow companies to make most profit.

[redefined_cycles]

Am I right in saying that Exposure is (still) UK made

[ScotRoutes]

You can't really go by brand either - Alpkit sell a mixture of UK made stuff and rebranded generic items,

As another example, Endura manufacture some of their kit in Livingston but other stuff is manufactured (to their design) from abroad.

[Bearbonesnorm]

A complicated subject indeed. I imagine that the only way to know for sure is to find a product you're interested in and ask the manufacturer.

Repack manufacture their luggage in the UK as do Alpkit, Wildcat and Straightcut. Acepac manufacture in the EU but their luggage is produced from Cordura Eco which is made from recycled plastic bottles.

I also appreciate that this may cause a tension between wanting to buy the best of something, but buying something not as good, due to it fulfilling my made up criteria.

There's no reason to believe that quality will be lower, in fact I'd hope the contrary is true.

[Boab]

It's a minefield full of cow pats

[snipped...]

Then you've where the materials are sourced from. For instance *all* cuben fibre (DCF) comes from one manufacturer so if you want to use that you've no options. Similarly where are silnylon, VX21, etc. made? Ultimately most of that will be manufactured in China, Taiwan, Vietnam or wherever else low labour rates, government incentives allow companies to make most profit.

Aye, unless you're prepared to grow the hemp yourself, process it into fibre, weave it to cloth and then sew it into a bag, you've got to draw the line somewhere. I can see the benefit of buying into companies like Patagonia and Vaude, and their eco offerings etc; on the basis that they're big enough to have it produced for them, to their spec, hopefully somewhere that treats the staff well. I'd rather buy from smaller UK based manufacturers, or suppliers.

AlpKit were the company I had in my mind when I brain dumped. I have the titanium mug and spork, and know I can buy the same things from the Yorkshire based serial discounters with the entertaining customer service, for less money. I was looking at the AlpKit bags and wondering about the Rando Stormproof Series, as it's so much cheaper than Original Series, so I'm assuming they don't make it.

Then there's the Acepac stuff, that uses the eco cordura, I like the sound of that in a similar way to the Vivobarefot bio shoes. Is there a UK manufacturer using the same material?

As another example, Endura manufacture some of their kit in Livingston but other stuff is manufactured (to their design) from abroad.

I really like the Endura clothing, it fits me and lasts long enough that I don't feel I'm being gouged. I fancy trying some Galibier stuff, but no idea about their ethical and eco credentials.

I suppose I've reached the point where I'm sick of buying lowest common denominator stuff because it's cheap. It generally doesn't work well, or fit well and falls to bits quickly. I'd rather start putting my money where my mouth is.

[whitestone]

On the environmental side you've also got to look at quality. No use being ethical if the thing falls apart after a year. Something that lasts will end up being more environmentally friendly.

I've a Mountain Equipment hooded Ultra fleece jacket. I've had it for 25 years that I can remember, possibly a year or two more, and it's had if not daily use then nearly so for all that time. There's one hole in a pocket due to me carrying keys in it and a couple of dabs of paint from when I've been doing some decorating (a rare event!), even the cuffs are in good order and not frayed. I can't remember how much it cost me but it certainly owes me nowt. I don't think current ME jackets are anywhere nearly as good.

[ScotRoutes]

Ah, Ultrafleece. Other than Karrimor Karisma fleece, did anyone else ever use it, and did it just disappear down an evolutionary rabbit hole?

Over the years I've been mostly happy to stick with brands I know or have an existing relationship with. Sone dalliances with budget brands have been very successful, others less so. However, at the end of the day, I can't afford to visit every factory so I take a lot on trust.

As above though, cost is not necessarily the only indicator of quality or of sustainability or working conditions/wages.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Then there's the Acepac stuff, that uses the eco cordura, I like the sound of that in a similar way to the Vivobarefot bio shoes. Is there a UK manufacturer using the same material?

Not as far as I know.

[ScotRoutes]

Might also be worth considering the "re-use" option more too. I'm happy to snap up the occasional 2nd hand bargain rather than add to the creation of demand for new stuff. Tent, sleeping bag, bivvy bag, bike bits, etc have been acquired this way.

[Gregsie]

Mrs G is doing a degree on environmental stuff and I think between us we've spawned a Derbyshire version of Greta Thunberg, so as you can imagine conversation in our household sometimes heads onto consumerism.

Other point to bear in mind is if you go to a smaller 'cottage' industry where stuff is made in house, they are more likely to be treating their workers fairly too.

Think you are wise to be considering spending a bit more. Stuff may last longer and therefore take longer to end up in landfill.

[Boab]

Might also be worth considering the "re-use" option more too.

I still have some gear from the mid-nineties when I worked at Tiso (Rose St., Edinburgh, full time for two years, then Aberdeen part-time for three), that's still going strong. I'd much rather start buying once, like I used to, than continue the trend of buying cheap crap and replacing it every year.

My wife was also giving me the re-use thing earlier when I was trying to explain what I was writing on here, as I was supposed to be helping to de-clutter our bedroom. We have inflatable camping mats that she bought from Aldi years ago, when she fancied trying out camping with friends (I wasn't there for the buying, or the camping). I had to explain why something that weighs the same as a Labrador, isn't really suitable to strap to a bike when your trying to travel light...

Other point to bear in mind is if you go to a smaller 'cottage' industry where stuff is made in house, they are more likely to be treating their workers fairly too.

Think you are wise to be considering spending a bit more. Stuff may last longer and therefore take longer to end up in landfill.

That's where I was trying to go with the ethical bit. I suppose I'm just going to have to trawl websites to see what I like the look of, then investigate further...

[thenorthwind]

Bob pretty much covered this in his first reply.

As Colin says, it can be argued second hand kit lessens demand for new stuff, which can only be a good thing. It's not a completely watertight argument, since the demand has to be there in the first place, but as a general principle, it has to be a good thing. Plus, gear that has value second hand tends to be the stuff that is built to last, which is probably the best thing you can do to minimise environmental impact.

Having said that, I think it was Patagonia who made the argument that the majority of energy usage over the lifecycle of a piece of clothing was in how and how often it's washed (may apply less to things like shells which tend not to be washed).

One recommendation (not bikepacking specific, but still) is Columbia's Outdry range of jackets (and possibly other stuff) which is supposed to be a very durable waterproof fabric, and is doesn't involve the same harmful chemicals as a DWR coating, which wears of anyway. The version I have (not sure if they're all the same) is made almost completely from recycled material, including the zips and finishings.

It's minefield as has been said, but good on you for making an effort to do the right thing. If more people did this, the world would be in much better shape in so many ways.

[GregMay]

As others have hopefully said (bit of TLDR for this, soory) - if you want "Ethical and Environmental Options" buy used kit.

Plenty out there.

[Thisisnotaspoon]

Worth bearing in mind that the environmental impact of a bag made in china from petrochemicals, waste products washed into the watercourse and the bag shipped most of the way arround the world. Is dwarfed by say driving a car to Wales to ride a bike.

The entire carbon footprint of a carbon fibre bike is matched by 1 trip to glentress from London for example.

[ScotRoutes]

Thank you TINAS for making me feel better about rarely leaving the Strath

[lune ranger]

Second hand gear.
Loads of it available. Just search ‘bikepacking ‘ on eBay or look on the classifieds here.
Most of my gear including bikes is second hand. One ride and mostly you can’t tell the difference between new and used stuff.

[ScotRoutes]

A visit to Andys store in Aviemore might supply lots of your needs. He is operating a "consignment store" for moving on second hand outdoor gear. I'm not sure if anyone else is doing similar.

www.backcountry.scot

[thenorthwind]

Worth bearing in mind that the environmental impact of a bag made in china from petrochemicals, waste products washed into the watercourse and the bag shipped most of the way arround the world. Is dwarfed by say driving a car to Wales to ride a bike.

I see what you're getting at, but they're different things: releasing CO2 into the atmosphere by burning petrol/diesel and chemicals into watercourses from manufacturing are very different issues.

Also, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Pirahna]

Whilst I like the idea of supporting small manufacturers I'll give you two examples why I avoid them. A custom made frame bag with the hose port sewn in backwards, I was told to burn a hole in it with a soldering iron. A more expensive one was a very nice fillet brazed road frame a few years ago with a fecked up the top tube dimension which the frame builder was unwilling to put right. It's off the shelf or homemade for me unless absolutely necessary.

For the environment, is it really worth it? There's way to many people on the planet . In the past we've had global conflicts and nasty plagues to keep us under control, that's not happening now. People will continue to bugger up the environment on both a local and scale until there isn't much left, fight over what is left the re-populate from there.

[lune ranger]

For the environment, is it really worth it? There's way to many people on the planet . In the past we've had global conflicts and nasty plagues to keep us under control, that's not happening now. People will continue to bugger up the environment on both a local and scale until there isn't much left, fight over what is left the re-populate from there.

Didn’t realise you bikepacked Rev Malthus

[Bearbonesnorm]

For the environment, is it really worth it?

Now, I'd not be standing in the way of a large scale human cull but it's the rest of the species on the planet that concern me.

[jameso]

Worth bearing in mind that the environmental impact of a bag made in china from petrochemicals, waste products washed into the watercourse and the bag shipped most of the way arround the world. Is dwarfed by say driving a car to Wales to ride a bike.

The entire carbon footprint of a carbon fibre bike is matched by 1 trip to glentress from London for example.

Any links or workings on this (the bike or frame footprint)? Interested rather than challenging it. Partic in how the footprint of the single item is accounted for eg, factory running output and transport div by units made, etc.

[thenorthwind]

Worth bearing in mind that the environmental impact of a bag made in china from petrochemicals, waste products washed into the watercourse and the bag shipped most of the way arround the world. Is dwarfed by say driving a car to Wales to ride a bike.

The entire carbon footprint of a carbon fibre bike is matched by 1 trip to glentress from London for example.

Any links or workings on this (the bike or frame footprint)? Interested rather than challenging it. Partic in how the footprint of the single item is accounted for eg, factory running output and transport div by units made, etc.

TBH it's a rather impossible question: where do you stop counting? What's the footprint of the materials that go into the product? Of the factories that produced the various materials? Of the transportation of the materials? And how do you divide it across products, as you say? Do you count the embedded energy in each of the trucks that transports each material? And how do you divide it across all the products it transports in its lifetime? And so on and so forth.

Not that there's not probably a whole industry built around trying to give you an answer, mind.

[Thisisnotaspoon]

I could probably dig it out but broadly a fairly efficient car is about 200g of co2 per km (not the 100 it says on the advert for a prius driven on a rolling road). So london to glentress as an example is 160kg of CO2.

For manufacturing there are rules of thumb like 5kg per kg of steel (for bulk stuff straight from the steelworks like sheet or I beams) or 1kg per $. So a bike costing $500* and weighing 15kg is somewhere between 75kg and 500kg Co2.

Hence realistically even at that sort of fag packet accuracy the environmental impact of a bike component used for leisure isnt in its manufacture its in its use (assuming most mountainbikers will make a couple of trips arround the country in a bikes lifetime).

*obviously a $500 and $5000 bike have about the same ammount of material in them and thus footptint, but raises the question where do you allocate the carbon footprint of the Madison offices in relation to a Genesis for example, as thats where the other $4500 is.