Blue Lake - an end of an era

[voodoo_simon]

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... s-16324985

This probably reinforces the debate on publishing bothies in the ‘net or not.

I’ve always been in the camp of giving the public the knowledge as ‘we’ can’t be that untidy and that ‘we’ would be respectful of the countryside.

However, I’m beginning to think that my naivety may have been called out with the Blue Lake situation. Such a crying shame that the public can’t go and visit a beauty spot without spoiling it

What is wrong with the public?*

* At least, the minority of the public

[Bearbonesnorm]

Minority? I'm beginning to think it's the majority.

Holiday season has arrived in mid-Wales. How do I know? Is it mum and dads smiling face? The laughing kids throwing stones at grandad? The array of inflatable toys shaped like (slightly misshaped) animals hung outside the cheap shop in Mach' near the clock tower?

No, it's the decoration of cans, plastic bottles, coffee cups and other sh1te that now line the edges of the roads having being tossed from the car windows of those wishing to experience a truly beautiful place.

Consideration for others and the enviroment seems to have vanished. As long as I'm doing what I want, then f*ck you Jack now appears to be the norm and it saddens me deeply ... to the point that I can see myself getting arrested before summer's out.

[middleagedmadness]

to the point that I can see myself getting arrested before summer's out.

I don't know stu ,I know when I've thought I was gonna get nicked for dotting the odd mouthy git throwing sh1te down the canal ,the local police have given me a little talking too and classed it as natural selection ,,but I really think it's just made their job a bit easier one less gobsh1te that's gonna think twice before acting the arse

[redefined_cycles]

I'm sorry. And I dont usually use bad language. But... Tossers!

Reminds me of what the state of advanced base camp is described as (in the book The Death Zone). Its literally full of sub standard and a nasty mess with worn out tents and O2 bottles and whatnot littering everything. Someone needs to put a stop to people going up there too (just last week thwre was a tweet whoing a queue lead8ng up to the summit!

[Fat tyre kicker]

Absolute wonkers, been wild camping around Nant y moch/ mid Wales for thirty plus years,
Been Solo, green laned in a Lanny, trf'd, walked....took my kids, watched red kites,explored the mines,took loads of pics but never left any mess, always been respectful of my sorroundings and passed that on too my kids, we love the area, changed lots in recent years, the internet effect of opening up these areas is massive....lazy bar stewards who cant be arsed actually researching anything for themselves use social media to plan their 'adventures' and post it for fun, sadly will probably be the demise for the more mechanised users of this fantastic area. I feel the adventure youth ? Element to our society is bleeding the countryside dry.

Very sad.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I think the thing that frustrates me most is the fact that over the years when I've brought doom and gloom to the internet with predictions of this type of thing, I was shot down by many and branded elitist, miserable, etc. There's absolutely no pleasure in saying I told you so but with stories like this becoming ever more common, my only hope is that those people may now start to be a little more pro-active in the defence of what they claim to hold dear. Yes, it might not make you universally popular but that's a cross worth bearing.

[Dave Barter]

It’s crap. I personally feel the only way to solve it is lead by example. I met a fella yesterday who was walking the coast path. He was at a bin unloading his rucksack of all the litter he had picked up over his last 10 miles. We do the same when out walking. It’s a small gesture but if one other person gets similarly inspired it is another kilo of litter collected. My neighbour goes out beach cleaning at dawn. She’s so inspiring because she doesn’t want any praise, just clean beaches. Every one of these acts negates ten w@nkers.

[Cheddar Man]

Oh dear, I feel I may be about to be a bit controversial!

It's easy enough to characterise this as 'them' making a mess, and that as lovers of the wilds and the outdoors 'we' would never do that. Sadly though, that is both a bit lazy and just isn't true! I spend a lot of time out and about, most often in places like probably lots of us on here do, you know the sort of place 20 minutes beyond the reach of 'them'. I just can't tell you how many times I have found little foil energy gel sachets, and that is pretty conclusive it is 'we' dropping them as the average group of teenagers will leave 8 Stella cans, a few Nos canisters and a disposable bbq, not some energy gels a 4 foot piece of paracord and a bungee!

Last summer me and a couple of friends went canoeing and camping in the Lakes. We bivvied on a small beach that could only be accessed with some proper paddling and a good deal of navigational effort, the first thing we saw was a foil bbq and an empty bottle of Port, that was definitely left by 'we' as well.

So I don't think it is about 'them' and 'we', it is also about the general lack of respect in society, but more importantly the disposable nature of our society. Look on here at the amount of us who are looking to always get new shiny bits of kit, new bikes, changing from one tyre to another, how much of the Classifieds section is "I am upgrading...." ? Yet on the WRT I bumped into an elderly couple who were cycling the exact same path as me, on 1980s touring bikes with mudguards, downtube shifters and big smiles! If we think of our expensive, Gucci kit as semi-disposable, then where on that spectrum does a piece of aluminium foil and a tin fit? Not even worth picking up is where. Glastonbury Festival had about 20,000 tents left behind last year!

Sorry about the small rant, and I feel sure 'we' would not cause the mess, but I wonder if all of us could put our hands on our hearts and say 'we have never left any rubbish behind'?

[Bearbonesnorm]

If there is an 'us' and 'them' then I don't consider those who class themselves as outdoorsy as 'us' and everyone else 'them'. I make absolutely no distinction and simply consider everyone who litters, leaves a mess and generally behaves in an inconsiderate and distrespectful manner to be a tw@t.

I've had rather heated conversations with cyclists of both road and off-road leanings before when I've seen them throw energy bar wrappers or gel packets on the floor but I never considered that they were the same as me or held similar beliefs just because they rode a bike, just as I wouldn't if someone drove the same coloured car.

If we think of our expensive, Gucci kit as semi-disposable, then where on that spectrum does a piece of aluminium foil and a tin fit? Not even worth picking up is where. Glastonbury Festival had about 20,000 tents left behind last year!

I certainly don't consider my kit to be semi-disposable but I completely understand what you mean ... why bother packing away the tent and sleeping bag that only cost you £19.99 at Go-Outdoors when you can just walk away, let someone else tidy the mess and buy another one when you need it. I'm fairly sure there aren't many Terra-Nova Lasers get left behind at festivals. While the western world continues to search out the cheapest of cheap and values the lowest price above all else, then the disposable society will continue to flourish ... strangely, I was having a similar discussion on fb yesterday and got called a c*nt for holding that view but nowt new there

[redefined_cycles]

Just in reference to what Dave said above regards picking up others mess... It not only enspires others to do the same, but (IME) also encourages others that come later, "to not throw it here"...

Seems that when the loiterers (cyclists as well as mummys with dirty nappies and dog owners -theres a butch look8ng fella and I'm sure its him, always makes sure his massive dog has a MASSIVE sub standard just outside the masjid on which path the kids and myself walk to and fro and many a time I've gone and gotten soil from my garden or some grass to cover it over... but that's a different story) see other loiterers have been past, it gives them an invitation to do much and the same...

For example, theres (a different) path on the way to the masjid which is/used to be constantly littered with litter. Its outside the shop and its the local lads (IMO) who frequent in their cars outside the shop. 8 just go past quietly and give a smile when I can... But then also ensure to now and again pick up a can or 2 or whatever craps been chucked. Then throw it in the bin thats within 5metres. Also when me and the kids are walking past I always remind them (not whilst people are looking) and encourage "just pick up that crisp packet and throw in bin"... Obviously the little uns are constantly grunting and asking why to which I explain that its their environment and a good environemtn will bring them happiness (or whatever I can think of at the time)...

Bear with me as I'm still trying to get to the point: just got waylaid with that tosser and them tossers (literally) who sub standard the dog outside the mosque paths and tos their rubnish out from their crappy cars outside the shop...

So, considering (both the sub standard and the shop I suppose), the mess outside the shop. As I walk past on a night from the night prayers - which finish at around midnight and specific to the month of ramadhan - whilst there's not really anyone about, I usually become the 'street cleaner' and get rid of as much rusbbish outside the shop as I can bear to pick up and 'toss' it in the bin. Been dping this ritual since start of month of fasting as this is when I'm able to go past shop at such a time... Anyway...

I'm pretty sure its not in my head, but it seems the litterlouting seems to be getting less and less (if it was my shop I'd be having a little cleanup after shuttong up and maybe thats whats happening after maybe he's seen me possibly!) and am hoping it will come to the point of being 'nice and clean (here's to hoping)' at some point....

Moral of the story. Like Dave Barter says about picking up other peoples mess (I think I draw the line at filthy nappies and dog poor show but maybe I shouldn't and surely the rule would still work the same), it does work and seems to have a knock on effect and also when people see its clean/clear they often think twice (and hopefully defer) about louting it there!

Sorry for the massive piece (again )... Did I tell you about the one time I picked up someones pop can they'd just tossed (in a different city this was but outside/nearby my inlaws) and as if by knee jerk reaction I just opened car door and deposited it back. Seemed to work for a frw seconds but they were obviously too shocked at what'd happened. As I was walking away thw lad just opened door and tossed it back out (you can't help/save everyone (every tosser!)...



Whenever I'm on a group ride (and when I remember which is hopefully often) I always try and make a point to remind everyone to 'pack in and pack out (this paragraph was somewhere in main body but don't understand how its just jumped here... oh well).

keep picking and not tossing and keep insipiring

[redefined_cycles]

Well said there Stu... +1 and a ... My Stan(the Sonder)s not disposable and nor is my bairbone pole (around which my shiny new tent is still slowly being built. One day they shall be donated to someone appreciative or inherited by my youngest (the eldest doesnt seem to appreciate my bikes and just grunts at em!)

[jaseisace]

Well I have to say I am deeply disappointed that the blue lake has been permanently closed ... I bivvied there last year with my daughters and we had a spectacularly good time...... although we were very concerned about the mess already there, we did feel that the landowner was setting him self up for a lawsuit at some point
The general condition of the area, old mine workings, the crumbling sheer sides of the excavations, the low hanging mine entrance and the unguarded drops of the cliffs, all pointed to a dangerous place that with the influx of so many social media aware folk, the chances of common sense use of the area was rapidly diminishing.
It’s a shame really because with the right management, the local people of wales could have found a little more investment from tourism coming their way
Oh well onto the next hidden gem that us explorers can find
My only solace is that the creator of these wonderful natural places will have his judgement of those ruining this beautiful planet
Revelation 11:18 “ he will bring to ruin those ruining the earth”
But in the meantime don’t get sucked into thinking that picking up your own litter is not worth it.......you are been watched. Whether by your kids, the wife, other enjoyers of the outdoors and God and that is what marks you as a good father, husband or human and that is the best feeling to have to be sure you have a clean soul
Jase

[Bearbonesnorm]

But in the meantime don’t get sucked into thinking that picking up your own litter is not worth it.

Absolutely. Always pick up yours* and others and if you see someone drop something simply say "excuse me but I think you just dropped something". Most will look a little sheepish and pick it up, some will just shrug and walk on - poke those people in the eye

*Not that you dropped any in the first place obviously.

[cyclingtiger]

Sorry about the small rant, and I feel sure 'we' would not cause the mess, but I wonder if all of us could put our hands on our hearts and say 'we have never left any rubbish behind'?

Its a fair comment. I always try to take out what I take in but in all honesty, sometimes stuff has gotten away from me. A wrapper I tucked under a leg while I was sitting and eating that managed to blow away while I was reaching for something else. A packet that I wedged in the bungees but still managed to come loose. Its happened. I'm not going to backtrack a section in the hope of finding the thing I've dropped or try and bound over heather tussocks in the vain hope I can catch an airborne bit of foiled plastic. It pains me but sometimes you have to accept you've screwed up and try to do better next time.

So instead of that, I have a rule that I take at least one more bit of rubbish out of the countryside than I leave behind. For the most part it means I'm only obligated to pick up one peice. I'll do more most times but hey, sometimes I'm doing a fell race or similar and serious litterpicking really messes with your PBs.

The difference for me is the sort of stuff that's intentional. Tents, barbeques, beer cans, nappies, etc, they don't just blow away and don't easily get dropped unnoticed as you try to walk out. That stuff was intentionally left. Thats akin to fly-tipping.

[Jurassic]

Hmm, not just gel wrappers. How many times have you seen a discarded inner tube lying by a trail or thrown in the bushes. I dunno what the answer is for us Brits (or even if there is an answer). Earlier this year I drove back from the Alps after a ski holiday and the difference between the rubbish at the side of the road in France (virtually non) to the side of the A2/M2 was shocking.