When is a race not a race?

[pistonbroke]

Thought a lot about starting this topic as farbeit for me to be to be considered a fun sponge.
Reading the blurb on the various ____DURO events and comments on the Wales360 elsewhere have troubled me about the legality of these things. The illegality of racing bicycles on bridleways in England and Wales is an anomaly well known and documented on here but organisers seem to have got the idea that staying "This Is Not A Race" on the entry website is sufficient to convince authorities that they are squeaky clean.
When I was on the governing body of Trailquest/MBOrienteering, best part of 20 years ago, we took high level and quite expensive legal advice on exactly what constituted a bicycle race and it was clearly felt that an event that had timed sections which ran along or even crossed bridleways and published results that were ranked using the times generated from such sections was most definitely a race, it mattered not that there were no prizes or if the riders signed a disclaimer that they were not participating in a race.
Now the fun police bit.
You may say well what the hell, we're all nice people and wouldn't dream of sueing organisers or anyone else for that matter if we damaged ourselves on such events. It's not as simple as that. The Duro events require participants to have personal insurance, suppose you're barrelling along a trail on one of these events and encounter a dog walker, crash into the dog and break it's leg. The owner decides to sue you for the £2,000 vet's bill for fixing the dog and you claim on your insurance. The loss adjuster discovers you were "competing" in a bicycle event using bridleways and given it's illegality, refuses your claim. So the fact of you being in an event gives you less protection than if you were just out for a social ride and had basic cover.
It could be said that the requirement for insurance in these events is superfluous, it neither protects you or the organisers from anything.
Lights taper and retires to a safe distance

[ScotRoutes]

I believe that only some sections are raced - presumably those on private land where permission has been granted. The rest of the riding is simply transition and makes no difference to the results.

However I am aware of some other events still being promoted as races using the public roads. They can GTF.

[Bearbonesnorm]

It could be said that the requirement for insurance in these events is superfluous, it neither protects you or the organisers from anything.

It could indeed.

When using timed sections that are not on BW and are a small part of a longer route, it would be very hard for someone to argue that should something untoward happen on these joining sections, that you were 'racing' ... as long as there's no time restraint to get from one to the other.

and ... I've always thought calling yourself 'something racing' or the 'racing something' then saying there's no racing, is something of a dim move but what would I know.

It's all a great big pile of grey coloured crap hanging by the single thread of a law that's over 100 years old. Something really does need to change or does it? Do we all pull together and try to get things changed or say f*ck it and just carry on as we are?

[pistonbroke]

I believe that only some sections are raced - presumably those on private land where permission has been granted.

I'm not sure you're correct there Colin, particularly the GBDuro has timed sections that run for the length each leg. Leg 1 is Lands End to Ponterwyd and they clearly state that the clock stops at the end of each leg and starts at the beginning of the next. Also agree with Stu that calling themselves the Racing Collective isn't helpful.

[ScotRoutes]

I believe that only some sections are raced - presumably those on private land where permission has been granted.

I'm not sure you're correct there Colin, particularly the GBDuro has timed sections that run for the length each leg. Leg 1 is Lands End to Ponterwyd and they clearly state that the clock stops at the end of each leg and starts at the beginning of the next. Also agree with Stu that calling themselves the Racing Collective isn't helpful.

Ah - maybe it's the Wales 360 one that only has timed sections.

[pistonbroke]

History lesson. The racing bicycles on bridleways prohibition falls under the "furious cycling" statute from the mid 19th century. The repeal of this was actually put forward in the early 2000's by the then Transport Minister Glenda Jackson but an election was called when it was days from becoming law and it was dropped never to be seen again. Good luck with getting Parliamentary time to deal with it these days.

[slarge]

I joined trailquesting in the early 2000's, and it was quite clear in those circles what constituted a race and what did not:

A race was a timed event over a prescribed course. TQs were not over a set course, so the fact it was timed was not relevant. Reliability trials are not timed (officially). Neither are BB events.

The Duro events are on one side of the line. I don't they are for me (and I like racing!)

[pistonbroke]

Steve, the very reason that Trailquests were designed as score events with a fixed time limit was to avoid them being construed as a race. The element of not having a fixed course was not important, the deciding of a winner based on points scored rather than fastest time was. In fact the guidelines for organisers stated that even ties were not to be decided on who got round quicker, rather on a countback of most high point checkpoints, starting time etc.
This was different to how events were run everywhere else in the world so we were at a disadvantage when competing overseas where the races were very similar to foot orienteering.
When MTBO came along, they were exclusively held on forestry land, preferrably devoid of bridleways.

[Thisisnotaspoon]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the legal difference between a TT on the road (which is legal) and an enduro or downhill race where competitors are racing the clock?

[Trail-rat]

roads are public.

Downhills and enduros are generally on privately owned (although publicly accessable) land.

either way you have to get permission from relevent bodies and do Risk Assessment and have insurance to run them.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the legal difference between a TT on the road (which is legal) and an enduro or downhill race where competitors are racing the clock?

DH or Enduro races are (generally speaking and as long as they don't use or cross a bridleway) completely legal. The problem arises when you want to use a public Bridleway. All racing of bicycles on a PBW is illegal. It doesn't matter whether you have the land owners permission to do so, it's still illegal. Some events which might come under the heading of 'bikepacking events' are timed, some have a placing structure 1st, 2nd, etc and some will go as far as calling themselves races ... usually in the same breath as telling people they aren't races.

Roads aren't really an issue (oddly), neither are other RoW ... the problem is bridleway but it's quite tricky to produce an interesting long distance route in England / Wales that doesn't use them to some degree.

[pistonbroke]

Another potentially controversial point, has anyone asked organisers whether they are aware of the minefield of racing on bridleways? I did an off road duathlon in Calderdale a few years ago and asked the organiser how they had managed to get round this issue as pretty well all the mountainbike course was on bridleways, I was told to mind my own business!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Another potentially controversial point, has anyone asked organisers whether they are aware of the minefield of racing on bridleways? I did an off road duathlon in Calderdale a few years ago and asked the organiser how they had managed to get round this issue as pretty well all the mountainbike course was on bridleways, I was told to mind my own business!

I think some are completely unaware and others simply rely on others being unaware. I always wondered how the Dyfi Enduro went on as a timed event that uses some BW.