Hydration - how much liquid do you consume on a ride?

[19ninety]

So this has come about as a result of this thread (if you're interested): http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB ... =7&t=13826 basically a query over why I would like/need to use a 3ltr bladder in a frame bag.

So I'm interested in how much other people consume whilst riding and how they would class their 'pace' of riding? I tend to get through 1ltr per 10-13 miles on an average ride out (Electrolyte powder with squash or energy/hydration mix). Though I'll add that my pace is fast and I'd consider it a fairly high effort for the majority of the rides, attacking climbs, and usual avg. speed is 12mph+, etc = lots of sweat (Example, rode South Downs Way in a bit over 9 hrs and consumed 9ltrs and not lots of peeing).
If I take it steady or am just going for a bimble with my daughter then I'll barely drink anything at all.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Obviously there's a lot of variables to consider ... or ignore, which I will.

Firstly, I'm not adverse to drinking and am something of a chain-brew drinker. Most of my riding is conducted at a steady pace over a prolonged period rather than hell for leather for a few hours. It's hard to put fluid consumption into terms of miles as no two miles are the same but in terms of time, then I probably drink a litre of water every six hours. I may add a brew or something to that total if the opportunity presents itself

On the TNR when temps were around 30 degrees and expending more effort than usual, that rose to something like a litre every two to three hours.

It may be that my brew intake leaves me very well hydrated with good fluid stocks on board

[Bearbonesnorm]

Ooh, maybe I should add that I don't eat much when riding either ... don't know if that has any bearing or not.

[restlessshawn]

I'd have no idea how much I drink and rarely know how many miles I've done or even how long I have been riding...I don't like statistics when riding :)

I'd drink way less than that though but I just ride steady. If I drank a litre every 10 miles I'd be having a pee every 5

[Lazarus]

3-4 hour rides I often do without even bothering to drink[ though i do leave well hydrated and have a pint of tea on my return.

Long or hot days and or at race pace whatever i need to not feel thirsty- its not a very scientific approach

I have a 3 litre bladder and it comes with me on long hot lake day rides or similar.
this gives me about 3-5 hours depending on many things, before i need to refill

[whitestone]

My pace of riding would be around 10-12kmh for something like the BB200 (looking at stats from Strava for the two I've done) up to around 16kmh for shorter rides. Note that I live in a hilly area so typically have 20m+ climbing per kilometre. I'll drink a 750ml water bottle every couple of hours, a bit more depending if it's hot. This isn't much different to my consumption on-road.

The actual figures for pace are somewhat irrelevant really as without knowing the terrain you can't compare and there's no indication of how that pace feels to the individual: that BB200 pace is my zone 2 but the 16kmh pace is top end zone 3 pushing in to zone 4. Also the BB200 pace includes some hike-a-bike sections which pull the average speed down somewhat.

Edit: Last year I attempted the French Divide and probably drank more than 1 litre an hour but the daily temperatures were mid 30s and higher, it hit 44C one day! That was exceptional though.

[jameso]

Depends on pace - for steady rides, not much. A bottle over 5-8hrs sometimes if not hot. Depends how you get your carbs in also. I prefer real food and water on steady rides but may use powder in a drink for 2-3hrs at higher pace.

I think rides and riders fall into 2 basic types / paces - eat to pedal where the food in to power out seems very direct and it's a ride at a higher HR / effort level, and those that burn reserves to pedal steadily and the eating+drinking is fairly minimal for the distance.
The latter as a rider ability may come from fasted riding or natural metabolism, not sure, but it can be developed and it's best for long distance riding. You can't be the former for more than 12hrs to a day or so w/o burning out.

[RIP]

Same as Stu and Shawn really. Everyone always tells me they don't understand why I don't look like a pickled walnut after a ride by apparently "drinking so little". I've never measured it (I don't measure anything else either apart from maybe gear weight), but I'd guess same as Stu. I have a 500ml bottle which weighs about 12g, in a ducttape stemcell weighing about the same, plus the 500g of water of course, and a water filter and/or Steripen. Re sheep poo, it'd have to be a pretty athletic sheep to get poo up onto my stemcell. Unlike some, I actually like stopping for a break, to smell the roses, fiddle with the map, have a cuppa, natter to a passerby, scratch me balls, pick me nose, daydream etc. It's part of my ride. So that's the time I'll drink as well. Filter 500ml and drink it, filter another 500 and keep it, repeat as required. There's always a stream, and your other friends are churches, graveyards, farms, houses - they all have taps, often handily stuck on an outside wall. There was a thread a while ago about water locations. Can't be many UK areas where you're miles from H2O. So after that roundabout wittering, answer = carry max 500ml, maybe drink 2-3L per hot summer day, 1-2L in winter? The key is the availability not the daily amount?

[19ninety]

There are almost infinite variables of course, but very interesting seeing all the different replies.
I'll plan my route around ability to stop at 30-40 miles for water if I'm going far, either a tap of some kind or where I can buy some bottles if free water isn't reasonable close by on route. This is based around riding a full sus mountin bike with plus size tyres almost entirely off road mind.

I actually have a new bike this year, adventure/gravel type, be interesting to see how this changes things!

[middleagedmadness]

I normally ride down to the longmynd or that area it's around 60mile each way terrain varying and climbing around 3500-4000ft each way ,takes around 5 1/2-6 hrs bimbling along and I get through a litre there and possibly a bit more on the way back ,but very rare am I pushing myself to extremes when I'm riding

[lune ranger]

How much you carry also very much depends on where and how often you can fill up. Pretty obvious to be sure but does need to be considered.
A long day in a dry desert = carry a lot of water.
A long day in the hills in the UK = carry a little bit of water plus a filter such as an MSR trailshot. In most places you will go past streams/tarns where you can get a fill.
Most places that sell food etc will give you a fill up if you ask and a lot will do iteven if you don't buy anything else. There's a bit of a growing movement for free fill ups. I think there are apps and websites that list places and some sort of door sticker scheme.
In general, off road in the U.K. I only carry 750ml at a time and on road up to 1.5L.
I'm reticent to knock on doors of private houses, if I wasn't I'd carry less on road as well.

[benp1]

I spent about 5 hours in the Snowdonia mountains/hills with the kids last week and we drank less than 2 litres between us. That felt a bit low in hindsight, and around a third of that was hot ribena in a thermos! It wasn't very sweaty work though, and it was pretty chilly

It did make me think that if I ran out it would have been nice to have had my water filter with me to be able to top up the bottles. I might do that on big walks going forwards

[Alpinum]

In the summer months I try to go with 0.5 L per hour. When it's hot and I'm on a long climb, it's likely 0.5 - 1 L per hour. I mostly fail at drinking enough though...

For more intense but shorter rides of 2 - 5 h in summer, 1.5 L is enough that I don't have to bother about water en route, but again, when I settle down I can't stop drinking.

On a long hot day in the Alps I easily go through 5 L, but never have to carry more than 1 - 1.5 L.

Obviously depends much on the weather and eg. on the first day of the HT550 in 2016 it felt just as one of those summer days in the Alps and I must have gone through 6 or so L for the 160 km leg, but on the second and third day it must have been a lot less as it was overcast with superb riding temperatures.

In winter (freezing, snow) I'm okay with less, 0.5 L will be okay for 3 - 4 hours and mostly go into a deficit, but once camping, hours of snowmelting follow suit to get the level back up.

Only for rare moments like when riding or hiking across Iceland I had to carry 7 L of water (hiking 90 km without fresh water source) or - different route but same area - 3 L (riding 70 km without source). Going along ridgelines also comes with carrying quite an amount of water eg. the first 120 km on the Alta Via dei Monti Liguri.
So besides the weather it much depends on the region and season of course.

Recently, during a little packrafting trip of 2.5 h with loads of paddling, 0.5 L was just about enough for the trip, but I felt a deficit again once I got off the river. I didn't sweat at all, but dry, cold air will ask for fluids.

And... probably most importantly, I make sure to not just flush water through my body, but add some salts to the water or have a pinch 1 - 2 x a day.
Hypernatremia is dangerous. Really messes with your body. Once past a certain threshold you get immobile pretty quick and a full recover can take more than 24 h.
I've been there (storm bound on a high mountain in winter, ran out of fuel, sucked snow till mouth was sore, no peeing for 2 day, last time peeing burnt and smelt very bad etc.) and it was hell. Threw up after the first liquid intake and barely could move I was so weak. Took me about a week to feel normal again.

Good call on starting this discussion 19ninety
It really helps to go through own experience and think about mistakes and learned lessons.

[macinblack]

Ooh, maybe I should add that I don't eat much when riding either ... don't know if that has any bearing or not.

As I understand it, your body needs water to process food and so it would make sense that if you eat less, you'll need to drink less.

If I'm wrong, blame Ray Mears.

[fatbikephil]

Depends on what's on offer, something from Williams or Harvieston brewery and I could probably manage 5 pints.
I appreciate that this may not be helpful to this discussion however

[benp1]

I run two normal size bottles when I'm out but I've just picked the big elite corsa bottle so for some trips i might use that and a water filter. Week see if I can drop my cage down to let it fit with a half frame bag

[Bearbonesnorm]

As I understand it, your body needs water to process food and so it would make sense that if you eat less, you'll need to drink less.

Makes sense ... I'll find summat else to blame Mr Mears for, must be plenty.

[redefined_cycles]

Good way to check and ensure one has drsnk enoigh..

Is mouth/lips feeling dry... if yes drink more

Have you been for a wee in the past 4 to 6 hours... if not drink more... if you did go for a wee did it come out like treacle... if so you are in the stages of impending acute kidney injury (urgently drink and drink unyil it comes out nicely and free flowing)... if not treacle and really dark then drink more.. was it clear in colour (your wee)... if so you are well hydrated.

Good rule of thumb is the formula: the body produces 0.5ml/kg/hour... so if you weigh 100kg then in 1 hour in a healthy individual it would be 50ml...

The bladder can shrink to almost less than the size of a mushroom (am pretty sure I read a pea size but sounds too small and I cant be bothered to get out the book) but can stretch to around 1L (at this point you would no doubt be busting and about to pee your pants)...

So using above calculations, for a 100kg person it would be 10 hours to fill the bladder to 500ml by which point the stretch receptors would be sending signals from the bladder that you needs a wee.

Lose some through sweat and around 700ml in 24 hours from just breathing. If one is panting then that would go to a higher figure of breathijg losses...

doesn't exactly answer the question but... at least its soke extra info to help decide how much to sup away and when its urgent

[Alpinum]

Good way to check and ensure one has drsnk enoigh..

Is mouth/lips feeling dry... if yes drink more

Have you been for a wee in the past 4 to 6 hours... if not drink more... if you did go for a wee did it come out like treacle... if so you are in the stages of impending acute kidney injury (urgently drink and drink unyil it comes out nicely and free flowing)... if not treacle and really dark then drink more.. was it clear in colour (your wee)... if so you are well hydrated.

Good rule of thumb is the formula: the body produces 0.5ml/kg/hour... so if you weigh 100kg then in 1 hour in a healthy individual it would be 50ml...

The bladder can shrink to almost less than the size of a mushroom (am pretty sure I read a pea size but sounds too small and I cant be bothered to get out the book) but can stretch to around 1L (at this point you would no doubt be busting and about to pee your pants)...

So using above calculations, for a 100kg person it would be 10 hours to fill the bladder to 500ml by which point the stretch receptors would be sending signals from the bladder that you needs a wee.

Lose some through sweat and around 700ml in 24 hours from just breathing. If one is panting then that would go to a higher figure of breathijg losses...

doesn't exactly answer the question but... at least its soke extra info to help decide how much to sup away and when its urgent

Sorry man, but quite wrong/sketchy to go by bladder signals to tell if you're drinking enough. It's actually too late if you're urinating what looks like a 12y young whisky. Too late as in that you're running at a deficit and can't perform at the same level as when properly hydrated.
Dry lips/mouth; even worse...

Our body is made of just about 60 % of water (depending on a few factors its a bit more or less), quite a few things change in it, even before we notice due to peeing behaviour or how dry your mouth is.

[redefined_cycles]

@alpinum I definitley agree with you sir. But the amount of times I've told people they need to drink more or they gonna get a kidney injury and the amount of time they bring 500ml to a 4 hour ride and I am constantly offering them my water, I've learnt to just tell them the signs of when they are totally shafted... Haha... That they seem to take more notice to. As a rule of thumb I go exaclty by what Stu said in an earlier post and run on around 500ml per hour when exerting but I know that slightly less...