Dedicated bikepacking bike... to plus or not to plus?

[ScotRoutes]

My oldest two Ti frames are 15 and 10 years old. The 15 year old one hasn't been used (by me) for about four years but has been on loan to someone else for two years. The 10 year old one is still going strong after several thousand miles. The two I've sold on are also still fine as far as I know. DaveB has one of them....

OTOH I've sold Lynskey-made frames when I worked in a bike shop and have seen them arrive with poor welding and mis-aligned dropouts.

[sean_iow]

Do/did Lynskey make ti frames for Salsa? I've always lustsd after a ti Salsa.

[ScotRoutes]

I'm sure Salsa moved all their Ti production to the Far East a few years ago. IIRC there was a fair gnashing of teeth on mtbr about it.

[Dave Barter]

My oldest two Ti frames are 15 and 10 years old. The 15 year old one hasn't been used (by me) for about four years but has been on loan to someone else for two years. The 10 year old one is still going strong after several thousand miles. The two I've sold on are also still fine as far as I know. DaveB has one of them....

OTOH I've sold Lynskey-made frames when I worked in a bike shop and have seen them arrive with poor welding and mis-aligned dropouts.

Never selling my Burls Colin. I love that bike to death

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Had two Ti frames; first was stolen quite early in its life, second has a dink on the top tube from a gentle impact. TBH, I don’t understand the allure; no lighter than Alloy (or good quality steel) and harder to repair than steel. Never felt any special ride quality. Alloy for FS and CF for rigid.

[Ringo]

I've got a ti indy fab deluxe 7 years old. Still my favourite ever bike

[Dave Barter]

Had two Ti frames; first was stolen quite early in its life, second has a dink on the top tube from a gentle impact. TBH, I don’t understand the allure; no lighter than Alloy (or good quality steel) and harder to repair than steel. Never felt any special ride quality. Alloy for FS and CF for rigid.

More spring than alloy, less rust than steel has always sold it for me.

[TheBrownDog]

Back on topic ... I really love the 650B+ wheels Ive got for my Fatty - not in the mud - they are sub standard in the mud - so Ive been running some 29x2.4s over winter. I reckon 29x2.8 would squeeze in there, maybe, and it'd be an absolute beast. Not on my 30mm ID rims though. I suspect my mate's wheel jig might be making another appearance at mine soon, as long as I can find yet another set of compatible hubs.

Speaking of titanium ... I had a lovely ti Van Nicholas Euros road bike for years. Frame was light and incredibly comfortable. Sold it when I was downsizing. Done properly. and if you can afford it, it's the very best material for bicycle frames. In. My. Humble. Opinion.

I'm actually on the scrounge for a titanium Inbred - large size in excellent condition - so if anyone comes across one give us a shout. It's for my now stupidly long legged 15 year old son ... his jump bike hasn't seen a jump for nearly a year and looks like a 20in BMX under him so I'd like to replace it with something more utilitarian, but still special.

And speaking of Inbreds, I've just seen that OnOne, back in October last year, announced that they were stopping production of those pups. I really need to keep up, eh? I've had 4 Inbreds over the years. Super frames for the money. Damn shame.

[Dovebiker]

I love 29+ - bomber handling for all day riding / natural terrain and the fact that you can just 'let-go' on the downhills - it will easily outroll regular tyred MTBs.
On the subject of titanium, I had my custom 29+ built by Waltly Titanium in 2013 - they make 'branded' frames for quite a few people - I've been buying custom ti frames direct from China since 2002 for myself and friends and none have broken - seen quite a few broken US-made frames, mainly due to poor construction / execution particularly 'value-engineering' (cost cutting). I've never dealt with Triton - but read about his delivery times sometimes being a bit optimistic.

[ton]

just seen this thread. got me thinking. i owned a 25 sized Jones plus. it left me feeling a bit odd.
it was good at most things, but did not excel at anything. also it was too small for me. i think the seat tube measured 19'' on the 25 size.
why build a big long bike that is too short for a big long bloke?

thing is though, i would love to own a bike with the Jones front end and a 22'' seat tube. i reckon that would have made my love for the Jones a lot stronger.

any ideas where i could get such a thing built?

[wriggles]

hmmm dropped you an email Ton

[99percentchimp]

Having acquired a 29+ and spent a bit of time building it, it got it's first ride (bar a spin down to the park and round the kids pump track) around the WRT... 190km and a fair bit of climbing it is sold on me. Need to tweak the fit very slightly but it was great for a first ride. (Recognise it Ton... thanks Andy )
And downhill it was fantastic - confidence inspiring when loaded. Can't wait for an 'unloaded ride' on some single track but loved it on rocky descents....
Need to play around with the weight distribution too but the Jones truss fork bags kept the weight low and behind the axle.
WRT10-12 by 99percentchimp, on Flickr

[ton]

glad someone is getting some fun out of it mate. enjoy.

would love one in a 22'' frame.

[wriggles]

Looking good Mark. That bike was bonkers fun on a rocky descent

[fatbikephil]

Bikepacking's take on + - http://www.bikepacking.com/gear/29-tires-list/ as well as a good reference for tyres

[lune ranger]

There is always a lot of talk about the ride quality of certain frame materials. Alloy is harsh, steel is whippy etc.
Are people not just quoting what they read in reviews?
Surely the biggest difference in ride quality comes from the type of tyres you run and how much air you choose to put in them.
My alloy bike with high volume low pressure tyres is way more comfy than my steel bike with skinnies pumped to the max.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Surely the biggest difference in ride quality comes from the type of tyres you run and how much air you choose to put in them.
My alloy bike with high volume low pressure tyres is way more comfy than my steel bike with skinnies pumped to the max.

... and let's not forget actual design - a comfy, good rding bike can be made from any material and abviously, so can a harsh, bad one.

Personally, I view 'plus' in whatever diameter as the preserve of the rigid bike. Once you add suspension, the two things can start to oppose each other (unsprung weight / undamped tyres) and the benefits of either deminish.

[Chrisps]

On the 29+ subject... my 2p worth.

I have had a 29+ for about 18months. I flip flop between 29x2.4 (with an RS Reba 100) and 29x3.0 (rigid) (on appropriate rims for the size). I use the bike for commuting (involving a frigging massive hill / 30km mixed surface round trip), general winter XC riding and long distance riding on bridal ways / green lanes. I have never bikepacked with the plus wheels on because....

Plus pluses:
- Very fun for local loops - the momentum of the wheel makes blasting over rocky descents and roots a hoot
- Extra float makes it a bit easier on some terrain
- Grip on climbing makes technical climbs easier (as in less physical burst effort required)

Plus minuses:
- On longer rides, you really really feel the extra weight (120tpi knards). When I commute on the 29+, I feel noticeably more tired than the 29x2.4. This has always put me off using the plus wheels for bikepacking
- You get used to being spoiled for mud clearance when running the 2.4s!
- Getting the pressure just right is key, otherwise you end up bouncing all over the place, which personally I find really annoying.
- Racks - 29+ is harder to get onto a rack (at least its harder to get on the Altera rack I use)

Overall, I really like 29+ for having fun blasting around. But I tend to favour 2.4 for longer rides.

Might be worth pointing out that I aggressively par down my kit on bikepacking, and tend to only do up to a week at a time, never more than 2 days from resupply... so the added weight of plus is probably proportionally larger for me than for say someone doing a trans-continental trip on a plus bike with the kitchen sink on their racks. In that situation, I suspect the extra heft of the wheels might fade into the background noise a bit... or at least that is always what I have presumed when I have read articles evangelising 29+ for bikepacking.

[Piemonster]

For what it’s worth.

My first ride on a 29+ left me indifferent.

My first ride on 27.5+ left me thoroughly converted.

Although both rides were just hacking about rides. 6ft if it makes any difference.

[Richard G]

I don't tend to carry a lot, and I'm light myself, so the weight thing is worth keeping in mind for me, for sure.

[benp1]

So what did you go in the end Rich?

[AlasdairMc]

just seen this thread. got me thinking. i owned a 25 sized Jones plus. it left me feeling a bit odd.
it was good at most things, but did not excel at anything. also it was too small for me. i think the seat tube measured 19'' on the 25 size.
why build a big long bike that is too short for a big long bloke?

thing is though, i would love to own a bike with the Jones front end and a 22'' seat tube. i reckon that would have made my love for the Jones a lot stronger.

any ideas where i could get such a thing built?

Ben Cooper at Kinetics would custom build you something. I've got a fat bike with a Ti truss, made in Reynolds 831 and almost the same geometry as a Stooge. 135mm offset rear, EBB - it's very niche. I bought it second hand, advertised on STW.

[Richard G]

So what did you go in the end Rich?

Don't have the money to order anything right now. lol

I think likely I'll be going for 29er with the option for 27.5+. I actually tried a plus bike on holiday and it wasn't bad. Bit bouncy, but it wasn't tubeless so wasn't running the sort of pressures I'd like.

If I can't get 27.5+ and 29 though I'll likely just stick to 29.

[postierich]

A Ti Stooge is a great do it all bike in 650b + mode yet to dabble in to the 29 mode for some plans in the future
At Play
Untitled by Richard Munro, on Flickr

At work

Untitled by Richard Munro, on Flickr

Did some one mention Indi Fab Ti deluxe ?

Threw my leg over this weekend first time since the SSUK17 Champs would never sell it
34383469_10156559723191474_3635723656111325184_n by Richard Munro, on Flickr

[AlasdairMc]

A Ti Stooge is a great do it all bike in 650b + mode yet to dabble in to the 29 mode for some plans in the future
At Play
Untitled by Richard Munro, on Flickr

Which version of the Ti Stooge do you have? I find that the 29+ rides very differently to the 29er - the 29er having noticeably shorter chainstays so is a lot easier to flick around, but is less stable as a result.