BB200 2017 - No More Speculation

[Wilkyboy]

I've decided not to 'plan' my food stops this year, it always falls over anyway. Looks like a water filter/chlorine tabs is a necessity though, unless I can just wring out my jersey into a bottle? I do plan on sitting down at 200km and having a strop though.

Get yourself to 201km and you can have said strop all the way to the finish with hardly any pedalling

[Bearbonesnorm]

A near 15km downhill to the finish is my cunning ploy to put everyone in a good mood at the finish ... this may completely backfire if it happens to be cold and wet as everyone will arrive cold and wet

top job stu

I have a feeling you might appreciate the section through Hafren too

[ZeroDarkBivi]

Food - is there anywhere for supper, or is this a genuine self-sufficient route?

Don't know the area well, but from what I can see:
Rhayader, 75 km - too early for supper (I would hope)
Elan village, 85 km - anything there other than the visitor centre (closed at 1630)?
Llanwrthwl, 90 km - looks even less inviting than Elan...
Yshyty / P-R-Y-G, 150km - I can't imagine anything will still be open, even if I get out the pen early?
(cafe closes at 1800)

I don't suppose there will be a through the night pop-up cafe, like last year? That was superb!

Failing that, a chuck wagon on the B4358, north of Beulah at 105km would be ideal...

[Bearbonesnorm]

I don't suppose there will be a through the night pop-up cafe, like last year?

Sorry, that was a one-off, once in a life time type thing

[Charliecres]

That cafe did such a good job of reviving me that I'm considering taking a stove to heat some soup this time around. Maybe a few of us could meet up for a picnic and a singsong around midnight.

We'll certainly be getting away from it all this year

[ctznsmith]

I knew that flat bit was the Claerwen Resevoir.

Hopefully I it won't be 3am and with horizontal rain like the last time I rode that track!

[Richard G]

A near 15km downhill to the finish is my cunning ploy to put everyone in a good mood at the finish ... this may completely backfire if it happens to be cold and wet as everyone will arrive cold and wet

Reminds me of the Cambrian Trail where I nearly froze to death because of rain, cold, and too much downhill.

It can be a really bad thing.

[atk]

Mike Curiak's pre-ride video: https://vimeo.com/28697401

[Wilkyboy]

I've been looking closely at the route, re-plotting it (in RWGPS) to reduce the inaccuracies due to canyon effect (it looks like someone's recorded track, but subsequently simplified, so a long way off in places). A couple of illuminating facts fell out of this, which will become apparent to all finishers, when they finish (I won't spoil the surprise then again, RWGPS could be wrong). I've also written a routesheet (audax-stylee), although without riding it to check it then it's worth not much, except to give an indication of what's coming up.

One of the things I did was to try to work out the surface on the ground and tot them all up to give an indication of what to expect. Road is pretty clear; hike-a-bike is also pretty obvious. However, gravel vs. singletrack isn't always cut'n'dried — what's gravel to one might be ST to another, and StreetView satellites haven't spied on Wales for a while. I think I've probably erred a couple of field-crossings too far to gravel, but we'll find out when we get there. Ultimately, though, this is what I think it looks like:



The longest road section is the descent to the finish at 15.8km. The longest gravel section is that final climb to Dylife at 14.8km. The longest singletrack is one of the forestry sections at 2.3km. And the longest hike-a-bike is the Carnau traverse after nightfall, which is 4.6km, IF you manage to keep to the trail in the dark — thanks, Stu

There are nearly 70 surface changes, so it's not like you get all of one surface in one go.

I'm not particularly looking forward to either the push up nor the descent down to the reservoirs — that just looks insane. In fact there are several descents around Elan valley that look tricky just in terms of off-road gradient at >10% and a couple >20%!

[Richard G]

There is a descent near the Rhayader reservoir that's properly steep. I'm not the best descender, and I've never managed it without a dropped seatpost (which wont really be an option on this ride).

[whitestone]

There is a descent near the Rhayader reservoir that's properly steep. I'm not the best descender, and I've never managed it without a dropped seatpost (which wont really be an option on this ride).

I know the one you mean Richard - the climb to get there isn't easy either

[ZeroDarkBivi]

SPOILER ALERT!

(Well it is a speculation thread - if you don't want to read any speculation don't read it)

One of the things I did was to try to work out the surface on the ground and tot them all up to give an indication of what to expect.

I was just about to ask if there was an app that did this analysis for a gpx file; are your number derived from the software or your own manual number crunching?

when loaded on hikebike there are a couple of gradient spikes well over 100%; a glitch in the matrix, one would hope...

Anyway, I did some surfing, uploaded it onto Komoot, and it spat out the following summary:

Expert Mountain Bike Tour. Very good fitness required. Advanced riding skills necessary.

WAYTYPES

Single Track: 5.38 mi
Hiking Path: 36.5 mi
Cycleway: 12.9 mi
Path: 21.8 mi
Track: 406 yd
Street: 1.43 mi
Road: 61.8 mi
State Road: 1.66 mi

Not sure I feel much more informed for this round of speculation.

Edit: it also thinks the route is 228 km long, with 4,200m ascent, way different to bikehike. On checking the detail of the route, it appears that Komoot re-plots the track onto trails and roads within its database, so has significantly altered some parts of the route. I short, all this clever analysis is basically a load of tosh!!!

[Wilkyboy]

SPOILER ALERT!

One of the things I did was to try to work out the surface on the ground and tot them all up to give an indication of what to expect.

I was just about to ask if there was an app that did this analysis for a gpx file; are your number derived from the software or your own manual number crunching?

Blimey! I've StreetViewed and satellited the whole route in detail and that list doesn't help me either!

No, I did it all manually. I re-plotted the entire route, corner by corner, tussock-by-tussock, in RWGPS with the official GPX open in RWGPS and BikeHike in two other windows, and going back-and-forth between them to line everything up. I am pretty sure the official GPX was recorded by someone riding it, so there are lots of areas where it's off by 20-50m, but still the correct shape — the "canyon effect" that affects GPS ... although of course, when we're riding it, our own GPSes are going into the canyons, too, so a map and dead-reckoning is probably more useful

I then wrote my routesheet from my RWGPS route — I ride and organise audax events, so I like me a bit of paper, if only to know what's coming up and when, and I've written quite a few this way. I've found RWGPS to be pretty accurate over the years, on road at least. As I was writing my routesheet then at each surface change I marked how long it went on for. Just four surface types, any more than that is meaningless; possibly "track" versus "gravel" might've helped, just because in Wales they're distinct. In places I had to guess, as it was not clear from the satellite, mostly (suspected) singletrack sections under the trees. More effort than required, but Mrs W was away at the time

I then read your list and was, like "huh?!"

Happenstantially, I rode about a third of this route in reverse on WRT in May None of the steep stuff, though ...

[Mike]

Rich, the descent to the reservoir is fantastic and of all the ones I know on the route by far the most exciting/interesting, well for me anyhow

Can't wait now had my last ride now before next weekend to let the legs rest before the onslaught.

[Wilkyboy]

SPOILER ALERT!
Edit: it also thinks the route is 228 km long, with 4,200m ascent, way different to bikehike. On checking the detail of the route, it appears that Komoot re-plots the track onto trails and roads within its database, so has significantly altered some parts of the route. I short, all this clever analysis is basically a load of tosh!!!

In one sentence you nailed both the surprises I mentioned. I am reasonably confident the route is almost exactly 220km, so about 5km longer than advertised. The GPX is reduced-point, so all the curvy detail is missing in a lot of places, adding up to a few percent. Komoot is probably adding too much distance with its rerouting.

And I wouldn't be surprised if there's less than 5000m climbing — barometric measurements, especially if there are significant temperature fluctuations and/or a stiff breeze can, from experience, be quite a bit higher than expected. RWGPS reckons about 700m or about 15% less than advertised. RWGPS reckons 4,600m based on Google Maps.

So longer and flatter. I don't think most people will notice either, though — once you ride beyond 100km, or climb beyond 3000m then everything hurts, and it doesn't really stop hurting, or even hurt more, you just maintain the level of pain you can tolerate ...

Note that I've not done many of these events (one), so I am still building up experience on how reliable RWGPS is across the Welsh landscape — all my numbers could also be complete tosh!!!

[Bearbonesnorm]

Don't know whether the following matters to you but:

1/ Parts of the route are taken directly from gps following actual rides, others are simply plotted.

2/ There are some sections that although present on the ground, do not show on maps.

[gairym]

2/ There are some sections that although present on the ground, do not show on maps.

You sure you've got that the right way round???

[Bearbonesnorm]

You sure you've got that the right way round???

I know ... but don't worry, there's some of the other kind too

[Zippy]

Hmm, caught a cold at the wedding I was at this weekend. This year I shall not be at the pace of those right at the front....might even sleep en route, although in expecting the bothies to be a bit full!

[ZeroDarkBivi]

I used Hikbike to make trail notes for the HT550 and the GPS derived distances where consistently further, about 2%, if I recall correctly. So I will be aiming for 220km, not 215, to manage my expectations at a vulnerable time...!

[Wilkyboy]

Hmm, caught a cold at the wedding I was at this weekend. This year I shall not be at the pace of those right at the front....might even sleep en route, although in expecting the bothies to be a bit full!

Is the new bothy open yet? The one about 10km after Claerwen (but NOT Claerddu), on Esgair Embor. It's about 150km in, so a bit of a stretch, but within range of the quicker riders I'd've thought. They were still renovating it when we passed on WRT. Or is that not a bothy?

[whitestone]

If you are talking about the building I think you are then I don't think that's a bothy.

[Bearbonesnorm]

Bob's right, it's not a bothy ... all this talk of bothies makes me think people are confusing the BB200 with the WRT

[Wilkyboy]

Thx. On my hill-climbing pace, I reckon I'd only be aiming for Nant Rhys on the first night, anyway ...

[Chew]

I'd be avoiding bothies if at all possible.
If there are other people in there you'll likely get little sleep
If you do you'll probably get more sleep than being outside but that will suck time
Someone may be having a rave