Luggage etc

[BigdummySteve]

Following the scales of truth at the WRT (62 lb )
I've been looking at my kit, revelate harness, carridice saddle bag and two anything cages weigh 1.6 Kg
I've put my tent and mat from the cages into a dry bag strapped straight to the bar and secured with the revelate pocket's straps. My cook kit fits easily in the pocket with room for a meal and other stuff. Sleeping bag in dry bag on mini rack. I've yet to weight the stuff I didn't use but I could have packed the same kit and been 1.6kg lighter, probably 3kg easily .....without paying silly money for anything carbon or unobtanium.
Most of my riding is solo, day ride out and back the next day. It's so easy to pack heavy and ride slow on your own, I suspect like many I'm going to return next year a lot lighter, Welsh hills education

[slarge]

Lose the cook kit, eat in a chippy, pub etc, and take fewer clothes, warm food makes you warm. Bivvy bag not tent.

With your savings also that could be 10kg saved.

What kit didn't you use? Leave it behind

[BigdummySteve]

Lose the cook kit, eat in a chippy, pub etc, and take fewer clothes, warm food makes you warm. Bivvy bag not tent.

With your savings also that could be 10kg saved.

What kit didn't you use? Leave it behind

Nordisk telemark2 950 grams, as light if not lighter than bivy + tarp and a LOT quicker to pitch. I'd never ditch the cook kit, some of my rides are very rural so you're not going to get a meal, also a hot chocolate on a cold night and coffee in morning is just civilised.
My point was that it's easy to carry several kilograms extra poor show without realising

[Richard G]

I tend to do the WRT fairly heavy as it's not my aim to do it crazy fast / uncomfortable. It's amusing really because I've often gone on significantly longer rides carrying significantly less gear.

[Wilkyboy]

Some easy TLS removed 3.5kg from my WRT weight of 30kg all-up. I hope to lose another 1kg with tweaks to my kit.

Edit: 30kg all-up = 14.5kg for the bike, 10kg for the strap-on luggage, 5.5kg for the Camelbak, or thereabouts.

[whitestone]

Make a list of everything you take on a trip. When you get back, cross off all the things you used. What's left, apart from repair/emergency kit, is the "just in case" stuff and potentially what can be left behind. Some things like waterproofs are 50/50 in that you hope it stays fine so you don't have to use them but you really do need them if it does rain.

After a few trips you'll have a good idea of what kit just never gets used. Once you've done this, then you can look at lighter versions of what you do take and use. Start with the big items like your sleeping bag as you'll make the biggest gains with these. Check out the book "Smarter Backpacking" by Jorgensen Johansson for ideas. Most can be transferred to bikepacking. A lot of the time thinking a little differently as well as trying to take kit that will do more than one task will help a lot. You don't have to spend lots of money either, I'll use a homemade "pop can meths stove" for example, weighs 10g. Yes it's slower than the all singing, all powerful gas or petrol stoves, but so what? It takes 4 mins to boil a mug of water rather than three, big deal! What are you going to do with that extra minute?

My "touring" mode is now lighter and more compact than my "race" mode of a couple of years ago when I started bikepacking. Last weekend's trip in the north of Scotland I had 6kg of kit before food and water, some of that, like the tarp, was communal stuff. I also have a "testing" mode where I'm trying things out so will take backups but the are usually local, short overnighters.

[slarge]

Nordisk telemark2 950 grams, as light if not lighter than bivy + tarp and a LOT quicker to pitch. I'd never ditch the cook kit, some of my rides are very rural so you're not going to get a meal, also a hot chocolate on a cold night and coffee in morning is just civilised.
My point was that it's easy to carry several kilograms extra poor show without realising

Ah, sorry, misunderstood. You are right though, it is easy to bolt everything onto your bike as it doesn't weight much individually, but when you add it all up the bike weighs a ton. There's a guy I work with who does some cycle touring. He has a nice bike, but every ride seems to have his bare minimum of racks, bags, big pump, spare this and that. His bike must weigh closer to 20kg than the 10kg his bike weighs. He thinks that every bit doesn't weigh much so he may as well take it.....

[whitestone]

Nordisk telemark2 950 grams, as light if not lighter than bivy + tarp and a LOT quicker to pitch. I'd never ditch the cook kit, some of my rides are very rural so you're not going to get a meal, also a hot chocolate on a cold night and coffee in morning is just civilised.
My point was that it's easy to carry several kilograms extra poor show without realising

Ah, sorry, misunderstood. You are right though, it is easy to bolt everything onto your bike as it doesn't weight much individually, but when you add it all up the bike weighs a ton. There's a guy I work with who does some cycle touring. He has a nice bike, but every ride seems to have his bare minimum of racks, bags, big pump, spare this and that. His bike must weigh closer to 20kg than the 10kg his bike weighs. He thinks that every bit doesn't weigh much so he may as well take it.....

Might be a bit on the geeky side but weighing everything and recording it in a spreadsheet helps in this. I've one set up in categories so I can see how much my bivy kit; bags/harnesses; spare clothing; etc. all weigh. Just by entering a number in a column I get a sum total of what I'm intending to take. While weight isn't everything - I'll take a heavier waterproof in spring/autumn/winter for example as it provides better protection than the typical superlightweight jackets - something like a spreadsheet does provide a wakeup call.

Cook kit - going from an Alpkit MyTiMug 650 with (lightweight) gas stove and canister at 450g to a MyTiMug 400 with meths stove and 100ml of fuel at 200g. No loss in functionality, cold weather excepted, but 250g in weight saved. Apologies if you've already done this.

[Bearbonesnorm]

As already said, knowing the weight of something is very helpful. Obviously it becomes a little disturbing for others when you can rattle off the weights of various items without reference, especially if you don't actually own any of those items

There's also the 'problem' of capacity and the more you have, the more stuff you'll generally take. I tend to view the bike as a blank sheet of paper and think, 'how few bags and straps can I attach to it?' and go from there. Trouble is, we like all the little extra bags and things - we buy them, then feel like we ought to use them everytime we venture out ... only attach things when you really need to and ideally, aim to leave them at home and you will TLS.

ordisk telemark2 950 grams, as light if not lighter than bivy + tarp and a LOT quicker to pitch

We could have a race

[Bearbonesnorm]

Often, people seem to quote figures of between 10 and 15kg for 'luggage' and I wonder where that comes from ... my essentials weigh under 2kg which includes shelter, sleeping, cooking and clothing. Granted, there's no food or water in there, so let's add another 3kg for that. We're now up to 5kg or thereabouts. Add another kilo for the luggage itself plus another for luck ... that's 7kg. What are people carrying extra to me that doubles that weight?

Not a dig, poke or willy waving but a genuine question.

[Wilkyboy]

Often, people seem to quote figures of between 10 and 15kg for 'luggage' and I wonder where that comes from ... my essentials weigh under 2kg which includes shelter, sleeping, cooking and clothing. Granted, there's no food or water in there, so let's add another 3kg for that. We're now up to 5kg or thereabouts. Add another kilo for the luggage itself plus another for luck ... that's 7kg. What are people carrying extra to me that doubles that weight?

Not a dig, poke or willy waving but a genuine question.

In response, Stu, this WRT was my first bikepacking trip, and I did say beforehand that TLS could only happen properly with real experience, so I knew I was overweight

TLS this time has identified batteries as one of the biggest dead weights — I had no idea how many batteries I would need for the Garmin, because on my road bike I run it from dynamo, so I took spares. Also, I took a heavy Cree front light plus spare battery to guide me through the night — I'm not going to bother with that again! I could've left nearly 1kg of metalled deadweight at home, had I known, minus the weight of a half-usable front light.

There were lots of bits and bobs in the bits-n-bobs bag on the back of the bike, which seemed like a good idea with zero experience, but don't seem so smart now — probably 1kg's worth!

FWIW, my sleep kit's about 2.4kg — bag 700g (synthetic), liner 180g, mat 200g, tarp 700g, Hunka XL 550g, plus dry bag => 2.4kg. Add on 500g of night clothes (jacket, socks, beanie) => 2.9kg, let's call it 3kg. Your 2kg seems optimistic without some serious investment in down and Cuben ...

I took a Jetboil with me, which was about 700g with a full gas canister. I'm putting together a burner-inna-cup system, which will be about 200g — awaiting delivery — to save half a kilo.

I took waaaay too many clothing options of heavyweight long-sleeve, short-sleeve, gloves, many pairs of socks, thermals, etc. Next time it will be a lightweight long-sleeve, normal long-fingered gloves and cold/wet long-fingered gloves, plus a snood. The windproof and waterproof go with me everywhere from years of road experience. Clothes were probably around 3-4kg, but I'll be paring that back to less than 1kg, to give me options.

Tools and spares — I almost always carry nearly 1kg of stuff with which to keep the bike rolling, because I don't get enough weekends away to risk foreshortening one through bad luck. I've almost halved that by dropping the chain splitter (I've never yet broken a chain, and it was new on for last weekend) and one of two inner tubes (I used to be able to get lightweight latex tubes, but I can't seem to source them in 26-inch any longer, and the rubber stuff's twice the weight).

Food, for me, was around 1.5kg, and those dry-food sachets were a bugger to pack.

Water — my all-up weight includes 2-3L of water, because I'm a thirsty bugger (and fat-burn is a water-intensive process, although I'm probably over-stating my ability to burn fat — in fact I just sweat loads). And the Camelbak itself is pretty heavy, as it's one of their rucksacks, rather than just a hydration pack.

Whisky — I managed to carry half a bottle of whisky, because my half-bottle Nalgene container weighs so much less than my solid third-of-a-bottle hip flask that they would've weighed the same anyway. 400g.

Clearly, the thing that tipped the balance was the two titanium shot "glasses" I also took — totally unnecessary frippery, but I thought a nice touch to share a dram with whomever I happened to be bivvied with — MarkW on this trip — as the storm was brewing around us (kinda)

Yeah, it all adds up. Some of the weight is due to equipment-to-hand, but the most due to not knowing what to leave behind. Given your estimates of your own kit weight, that's a useful target to aim for, but it might take a few trips before I'm close.

[Wilkyboy]

There's also the 'problem' of capacity and the more you have, the more stuff you'll generally take. I tend to view the bike as a blank sheet of paper and think, 'how few bags and straps can I attach to it?' and go from there. Trouble is, we like all the little extra bags and things - we buy them, then feel like we ought to use them everytime we venture out ... only attach things when you really need to and ideally, aim to leave them at home and you will TLS.

I looked enviously upon everyone's framebags, thinking they look like a good idea. The problem is that it's more luggage to fill. But — and I only saw one other of these on WRT — a significant reduction in "stuff" would enable me to ditch the Carradice and Bagman support — a framebag's probably less than 500g and the Carradice and Bagman are over 1kg. However, having BOTH would be a disaster in packing terms, unless I was going away for a week.

[jameso]

Whisky — I managed to carry half a bottle of whisky, because my half-bottle Nalgene container weighs so much less than my solid third-of-a-bottle hip flask that they would've weighed the same anyway. 400g.

You Sir have your priorities right .. TLS needs to be balanced with 'it's not a race, prioritise the good stuff'

I'd take a half bottle but I'm a pack-list weight weenie (my bike, no idea what it weighs - first time it was on the scales was the WRT weigh-in). Next WRT I will have a warmer bag and a warming drink, +1kg over this year.

[BigdummySteve]

An even lighter whisky carrying option is an empty plastic water bottle, seem like sacrilege with something nice like bowmore though.
Same with the water bottle, 750ml spring water bottles weight nowt and come with a flip cap to keep them clean. Later today I'm going to have a pot if shame on the scales, everything I didn't use or could have left behind will be weighed.
My other weight savings will require spending, my RAB 500 is over 1kg, I can get similar performance for 1/2kg less, my rims are another area. I can save a shocking 1/2kg a rim with extra by not having to use a split tube.
I'm dropping my cashe battery size as well, 3 days out and I finished with fully charged phone and Garmin and 3/4 full battery, another 200g lost. I've just weighed my 650ml Ti pot cook set @ 430g, a 400ml pot and one of stu's meths stoves perhaps 200g?

It's so easy to discount 100g here and there, as mentioned I think I can drop 3 kg without spending a penny or compromising comfort. Next time I hit the scales I'm aiming for under 50lb for a multi day setup.

[Richard G]

FWIW, my sleep kit's about 2.4kg — bag 700g (synthetic), liner 180g, mat 200g, tarp 700g, Hunka XL 550g, plus dry bag => 2.4kg. Add on 500g of night clothes (jacket, socks, beanie) => 2.9kg, let's call it 3kg. Your 2kg seems optimistic without some serious investment in down and Cuben ...

I took a Jetboil with me, which was about 700g with a full gas canister. I'm putting together a burner-inna-cup system, which will be about 200g — awaiting delivery — to save half a kilo.

That's a seriously heavy tarp. I think mine (non cuben) can get two (friendly) people under it and weighs 260g.

Also, yeah... jetboil kinda ridiculous. I bought one for glamping and it seemed over the top even in that situation.

Just for direct comparison with what I'll have with me for three days next weekend. 700g tent, 300g bag, 365g mat. 300g of night clothes. 1.7kg.

[Wilkyboy]

That's a seriously heavy tarp. I think mine (non cuben) can get two (friendly) people under it and weighs 260g.

The tarp itself is about 500g, but adding on pegs and quite a lot of 5mm paracord brings the weight up. What's your tarp?

Also, yeah... jetboil kinda ridiculous. I bought one for glamping and it seemed over the top even in that situation.

I bought it for wild camping on Pen-y-fan ten years ago — it's a great little water heater, very fast, but a bit heavy and quite bulky. It sat well in a Monki Cage on my bottle bosses, though.

Just for direct comparison with what I'll have with me for three days next weekend. 700g tent, 300g bag, 365g mat. 300g of night clothes. 1.7kg.

300g bag? Lightest I've seen is about 450g ... eh?

[Borderer]

Maybe it's a bin bag....

[Richard G]

I don't have it to hand, so I can't give you the exact details.

It's not my lightest bag though... http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... d=62&vid=6

The tarp I'm talking about is a DD Superlight S. Cords weigh next to nothing and I've got some of stu's carbon pegs / carbon pole... so they don't weigh much either. Apparently the weight I gave you includes some cord and 4 pegs, though I don't use the pegs that came with it.

[whitestone]

I'd be careful comparing bivy kit weight with others as there's so many variables: racing vs. touring; warm vs. cold sleepers; summer or autumn; etc. Many if not all the ridiculously light weights that get quoted are for "race" kit.

Last weekend whilst folk were doing the WRT, my wife and I were in the north of Scotland reccying the northern loop of the Highland Trail. My bivy kit consisted of:

Exped mat: 405g
Cumulus 150 quilt: 375g
PHD Minimus 200 bag: 430g
Alpkit Hunka XL bivy bag: 500g

Shared between us was an Alpkit Rig7 tarp and poles: 700g

So that's 1705g plus the tarp, a total of around 2.4Kg. I could have got away with just the sleeping bag as it wasn't particularly cold. If it hadn't been so windy then we might not have needed the tarp but, hey, this is Scotland and you can get anything and everything in one night. Note that Cumulus are probably the best bang for buck in terms of down bags/quilts and quite a few on here have something from them but you have to purchase them from overseas as there's no distributor of the quilts in the UK, the bags are called Criterion here.

Let's work on the above. We'll assume summer usage and for one person rather than two. In no particular order:

1. Replace the Rig7 with its smaller brethren the Rig3.5 with a weight reduction from 600g to 375g. Total is now 2180g
2. Don't need both quilt and bag. Take the quilt. Saving of 430g. Total is now 1750g
3. Replace the Exped mat with a Klymit X-frame. Saving of 130g. Total is now 1620g.
4. Replace the Hunka with a BorahGear cuben fibre bivy. Saving of 370g. Total is now 1250g

Apart from the last item all the new items are actually cheaper than the originals. With just these changes we've reduced the weight to nearly 50% of the original though the new list won't cope with the cooler temps that the original set did. If you are prepared to spend money then a cuben fibre equivalent of the Rig3.5 weighs 125g, a saving of 250g so you are now down to 1Kg.

While the above sounds brilliant, there's a hidden cost in that the lightweight kit isn't as durable so you need to be careful when using it, certainly more so than with heavier stuff. What you take still has to be fit for purpose.

Before getting new kit it's also worth considering just how much usage you'll get out of it. I'd considered getting the Cumulus bag that Richard linked to but it's so close in rating and performance to the quilt I already have that I'm unlikely to get much use out of it so to me it's not really worth the 130g weight saving.

[Richard G]

The comment on the race kit is true. That said, my "all year comfort bag" and "all year comfort mat" only adds 250g to my total.

[Bearbonesnorm]

It's not really the big stuff that's heavy or difficult to lighten off. It's all the trinkets and bits of crap we like to carry that pile the weight on.

If you really want to reduce the weight of what you carry, a change in mindset is sometimes required - with that in place, the pounds will simply fall off

However, it can be something of a gradual process and often runs hand in hand with experience making it a difficult thing to alter straight off the bat as it were. The next time you pack, ask a few questions of each item before sticking it in the bag.

1/ What's the worst that could happen if I don't take this? ... be honest, don't start adding floods and plague into the equation.
2/ Am I already taking something that could serve the same fuction as this item? ... it might need some alteration or imagination.
3/ Is it as light as it could be? ... remove it from bags, take off straps, etc.

Answer those questions honestly and 50% of the time you won't take the item in question or not at its full weight.

[whitestone]

It's worth remembering the ultra-light bikepacker's three Rs:

1. Reduce This of course is Stu's TLS
2. Reuse A bikepacking example would be using walking poles for the tent/tarp at night rather than carrying specific ones.
3. Repackage 500ml tub of Ass cream? Find a 10ml container and put some in there.

Sometimes it's a case of seeing what to do and as Stu says that usually comes with experience. I've a history of Alpine climbing which is similarly taken with doing as much as possible with as little as possible (followed by a lot of fell running which is similar) so I'd already got the mindset. 1980s gear is positively lardy compared with modern kit so I went on a gradual replacement programme. After two years I've probably halved the weight and volume of stuff I take. Made a few mistakes along the way but hey ho.

As well as Stuart's questions to ask before you pack your kit, ask the following afterwards:

What worked?
What didn't work?
What worked for others that I didn't have/do?

Sometimes it's the wrong bit of kit in a given situation, sometimes it's just the wrong bit of kit.

[Bearbonesnorm]

2. Reuse A bikepacking example would be using walking poles for the tent/tarp at night rather than carrying specific ones.

Do you mean 'backpacking' rather than bikepacking there Bob?

[whitestone]

2. Reuse A bikepacking example would be using walking poles for the tent/tarp at night rather than carrying specific ones.

Do you mean 'backpacking' rather than bikepacking there Bob?

Err yes

[Wilkyboy]

... it can be something of a gradual process and often runs hand in hand with experience ...

Ay, wise words:

Gradual process: for the next trip, apart from my "upgrade" to one of Stuart's micro-stoves — thanks! — plus a secondhand Mytimug 650 in place of the Jetboil, and trying different foods, all my other changes for the trip will be "take less". I'll eventually get to the point of replacing parts of the sleep kit, but not yet, I'm just collecting ideas ...

Experience: I'm trying to build a little on others' experience, due to a shortage of opportunity to get my own, and being so far behind the curve.