Wheel and tyre sizes

[19ninety]

I thought I would ask on a bikepacking forum rather than a mountain biking forum :)

Coffee fuelled ramble;
Why do I ask? I've been riding a 29er hard tail for the last 2 n a half years, as I've got fitter I've pushed longer and harder. I'm not ready to buy a bivy yet as I have a young family and other commitments, one day perhaps (for summer rides)!
I do however have a thing for long days out, I've clocked a couple of 100 milers (SDW 100) now, and don't really think much of doing 50 or 60 miles or more on a Saturday around the Ridgeway/Chilterns. So I've done 100 miles now I want to do a bit more, the thing that's bothering me is it's quite uncomfortable so far grinding out 100 miles and 10k ft climbing. My arse kills but also my upper body and neck especially get tired - this maybe normal? No one else I ride with is really in to punishing themselves! I'm 6'2" even though my 29er is an XL after bike fitting at Spech in Newbury I'm in quite a racey position ... long legs don't help at all and mean my arse is up and front end quite low.... I have a 450mm seatpost!!
I've been looking around to see if there might be a better bike for me that will fit me better and be more comfortable on a say 12-18 hour (150 miles +) ride. I thought about full sus for a while, I've never owned one but they seem quite expensive, but could probably find a frame that works with my current wheels, but will rear suspension help make such a long ride easier on the body? Something else that I am wondering about is a steel frame and 650b+ wheels & tyres .... has anyone else used this combo?

TLDR;
Anyone ridden a steel frame with 650b+ wheels/tyres, if so how is it for 12 hour plus days in the saddle?
Does a full sus bike do much to soak up some of the harshness of 12 hours plus days in the saddle?

[Bearbonesnorm]

If a bike doesn't fit, then it doesn't fit ... trouble is, it can fit for the first 6 or 8 hours but not for additional 4 or 5

My arse kills

Are you riding with a backpack on?

also my upper body and neck especially get tired

Can you raise your bars? It'll probably make your bike look awful but in the world of bikepacking, function usually wins over form.

[Blag]

I've just got a boardman full suspension 650b and I can honestly say it's an absolute bargain. On offer at Halfords for 1200quid. Very comfortable and far better ride than my previous 3k trek. My 29er hardtail is now redundant because it feels like a bone shaker in comparison

[voodoo_simon]

Quick glance at your bike and I'd be saying that maybe it's too small for you but as I can't see you and the bike in real life, I could be wrong.

When you went for a bike fit, did the fitter look at your bike before starting and comment on the sizing etc (good or bad comments?).

I'm quite dubious of bike fitting, so many in the trade go on a course over a weekend and think they're experts. Be wary of those that fit you to a set size (the one chasing a certain angle). All my opinion of course, so could be way off the mark ;-)

As Mr BB himself says, look at that cockpit area. Sore bum? Maybe a change of saddle, shorts, less tyre pressure or a new bike fit?

Actually, when was your last fit? Maybe you've changed over time? Tighter muscles etc

Off the point but if you can find the time for 100 milers, then overnighters as are easier to do with children ( or at least for me!)

[19ninety]

Bearbonesnorm:
After the bike fitting things were a lot better, before really long rides were agony, so the fitting helped a lot but I guess the chap got the best fitting he could for 'me' on 'that' bike. Maybe one "do it all bike" isn't the best solution, it probably isn't really the best bike for long distance riding, extra short chain stays, really slack angles. Great for going down stuff fast though.

I do ride with a pack on, that's all my gear in it and a 3ltr bladder .... I should have thought about that before, that's 3 kilos right there + tools, kit, food!! I did however buy a small frame bag last year to put food in for the South Downs Way ride, perhaps I should invest in another to off load some more weight to the bike.

I can raise the bars a fair bit with that stem & spacers. I hadn't done it becuase that's the way it was set after the bike fitting. I did try and end up buying a new saddle in the bike fitting, now I'm wondering if the saddle made more difference than the actual fitting!! In which case bringing the front up 2-3cm could make a big difference, will have to have a fettle.

[19ninety]

I've just got a boardman full suspension 650b and I can honestly say it's an absolute bargain. On offer at Halfords for 1200quid. Very comfortable and far better ride than my previous 3k trek. My 29er hardtail is now redundant because it feels like a bone shaker in comparison

The 650+ I've been eyeing from a very far is £1200 also, but a hard tail.

Quick glance at your bike and I'd be saying that maybe it's too small for you but as I can't see you and the bike in real life, I could be wrong.

When you went for a bike fit, did the fitter look at your bike before starting and comment on the sizing etc (good or bad comments?).

I'm quite dubious of bike fitting, so many in the trade go on a course over a weekend and think they're experts. Be wary of those that fit you to a set size (the one chasing a certain angle). All my opinion of course, so could be way off the mark ;-)

As Mr BB himself says, look at that cockpit area. Sore bum? Maybe a change of saddle, shorts, less tyre pressure or a new bike fit?

Actually, when was your last fit? Maybe you've changed over time? Tighter muscles etc

Off the point but if you can find the time for 100 milers, then overnighters as are easier to do with children ( or at least for me!)

Yea he had me on the bike, the Specialized fitting uses cameras torecord different views, and he went over my position and things. He went through lots with me, about how I had it set up at the time, the effects of that and so on. Pretty interesting stuff, he did have a gauge to measure leg/knee angles. The before and after pictures were noticeably different, looked to have a much better posture on the bike. Again I suppose he could only do so much with that bike and a tall guy with size 14 feet and long legs!!

[jameso]

Hello to a Chilterns local ..

My arse kills but also my upper body and neck especially get tired - this maybe normal? No one else I ride with is really in to punishing themselves! I'm 6'2" even though my 29er is an XL after bike fitting at Spech in Newbury I'm in quite a racey position ... long legs don't help at all and mean my arse is up and front end quite low.... I have a 450mm seatpost!!

Get your position sorted first - no amount of cush will help if you're in a poor position for long rides and your bike fit may not be setting you up well for what you're doing, fitting can be generally biased towards forward-weighted racing positions and output efficiency and not enough about balanced comfort. As soon as they're using things to measure your leg angles I'd get a bit sceptical. Your bike looks crippling to me : ) but appreciated it's about body proportion. Weight / c of g comes into that though, not just body dimensions.
I started doing more long once I got a bike that I was more comfortable on and I found a more relaxed position wasn't any slower over 2-3 hours and made >6 hours feel fine. Long rides come down to keeping on top of those niggling discomforts eventually so it makes sense to prioritize comfort, and forget anything based on power output fitting, knee over pedal, etc, ie that generic roadie stuff*. I'd say the basics of comfy long-distance bike fit are being able to unweight your hands from the bar and still pedal / maintain that position and not having the saddle too high - as many do. The Lemond method for saddle height (as a max for MTB use) is a pretty useful fit formula - not sure if there's many more though tbh.

*with respect to fitters that know way more about roadie stuff than I do

[Bearbonesnorm]

I've just been into the workshop and looked at my bikes ... the ones that I would consider comfy for long distance work all have the bars no lower than 20mm below the saddle height and a couple are actually level. I'm not sure how near you'd get to that given your height but it's something to consider / ponder.

At the moment, I'd imagine that you're straining you neck quite a lot which will obviously lead to neck / shoulder / back pain over a few hours ... think shopper

[19ninety]

Hi jameso!

I see where this is leading a more suitable bike. Everything you've said is spot on. Gangly extremities have led to a racey riding position ... and it is great for smashing out speed, but not comfortable.
I noticed what you said, about bar height, when looking at bike people use to ride the Tour Divide - I figured an extreme example of endurance riding would be a good starting point for ideas. I also see a lot of folks who are short who's saddles and bars are at more of a similar height, does look a lot more comfortable!
I'm not sure how much room there is on this bike to be able to make it more comfortable without really messing up the way it rides, the geometry is very slack and I've already got a 90mm stem on there.
Not looking forward to the arduous task of trying to find a suitable affordable bike, been eyeing one of these in XXL for a while:
http://www.marinbikes.com/ca/bikes/desc ... mountain-1
But I don't know if plus sized tyres are the way forward, or steel.

[Kumquat]

Hi
The position of your bars relative to your saddle on that photo reminds me of xc race mtbs in the very early 1990s.
Probably great for 2-4 hours fastish riding but a bit grr for day rides.
You could put some higher rise bars on.(you will need to fit longer cables and hoses)
It's also nice to have a couple of options for hand positions too.
Do you run your tyres tubeless?
Tyre width, pressure and suppleness of the casing can have a major effect on the smoothness of the ride.
I'm sure you know all this.
I use a ti seatpin on my hardtail not for any reason other than it soaks up a lot of the jarring from lumps and bumps. Though I'm guessing yours probably flexes quite a bit.
Get the weight off your back and onto your bike, your butt will thank you!
All of this and maybe some basic core exercises should help.

[whitestone]

I'd have the same problem: the bike would fit fine up to around 100-120 miles then it would get painful. My little and middle fingers would go numb and only a baboon could love my arse! As others have said, the bars look very low in comparison to the saddle, just checked mine and the bars and saddle are the same height - there's a mass of spacers on the steerer to achieve this - the stem certainly isn't "slammed"!

I tried several things to solve the problematic contact points: changed saddle; swapped bar grips from ODI to Ergons; changed the angles that brakes and gear levers were set at. I solved most of the problems by setting the saddle nose down by about 5deg. You'd think this would force your body weight onto your hands and make things worse but it doesn't, I think it probably forces you to engage your core muscles more but have no evidence to support that. Shortly after I made this change I read a piece in the Guardian about the British Women's track cycling team having saddle problems - the recommendation put forward to the UCI was that a saddle nose down by up to 9deg was preferred for preventing saddle sores and other aches. There were other problems mentioned in the article but they don't concern us here

It took me a good few rides to get that sorted: if you've messed up the nerves in your hands then you can't just head out for another 100 miler to check your next modification. I'm on a rigid 29er BTW. The last couple of long rides that I've done (both 200Km) I've had zero problems and could have done the same again the following day so I'm reasonably confident that my set up is right *for me*.

[19ninety]

Kumquat
My current bars have a slight rise, I'm going to try flipping the stem round and moving the spacers back tomorrow, my fear is that with such a slack head angle that the higher the bars go also the further back I'm pushed and it's quite cramped as it is and the saddle is as far back as it can go.
I'm a tubeless convert, so have the pressures fairly low already and run 2.1 rear and 2.25 front. I'm really limited on seatpost options due to the length I need, the one I have is very flexible, it will flex by hand a good centimetre, and can feel it flex too when I'm really tired and can't get off the saddle on large bumps, etc.
Ill look in to a bigger frame bag, possibly something with a compartment for long rides in which I could put my 3ltr bladder.
I'm a couple of months in to some circuit training which is helping with core strength a lot ... I do need to do yoga too but work, family, training, work, bed is my daily routine. Really busy boy.

whitestone
Didn't get a chance to tweak things on my MTB bike - I did buy a second Phemon Comp recently which I put on my clunker road bike tonight finally, which I use on the turbo trainer. The turbo trainer is quite handy as it gives me easy access to fettling positions, one of which is the saddle angle. Tilted slightly forward is a lot more comfortable tonight, took the pressure off my nuts a lot! I couldn't do that with the Charge Spoon as tilted forwards it was painful to ride on.
The bike fitter had also done the same thing with the Phenom Comp saddle they sold me at the time, tilted it down a touch at the front, where my old saddle had been level. And interestingly I think it was either on TrainerRoad of the Sufferfest vid Elements of Style in which they talk about rotating the hips forward to straighten the back and engage the core muscles, which requires the saddle to be tilted correctly. Clever stuff! The Charge Spoon saddles were quite dished where as the Phenom is nearly flat and a lot less flexible.
I've not had numb fingers since swapping to ESI Chunky silicone grips a couple years ago, I've got some other even thicker silicone grips to try too now. I had contemplated putting a couple of wraps of bar tap around the ESI's now they have "bedded in" to my hand shape... actually perhaps I should try that before cutting the ESI's off and see how it goes.
I long for a bike that fits so well I could ride it day after day ... would love to do the C2C one day but I'm really put off by the idea of being already sore getting on the bike for day two.

[whitestone]

Here's the Guardian article - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... ore-medals