Right then, in the 'if you call it, you have to do it' spirit - a '2017 plans' thread idea that could be more fun if a few of us were doing it?

Between now and December next year I'm going to do a series of permanents or self-regulated rides that would qualify for a Super Randonneur year, https://rusa.org/award_sr.html inc a Grand Randonnee 1200km also. To be mapped, ridden and time-stamped/proven in any way reasonable, it's just for my own reasons. The SR/SR - Self-Regulated Super-Randonneur.

The events—called brevets—are 200km (13.5 hour time cut-off ), 300km (20 hours), 400km (27 hours), 600km (40 hours), and 1000km (75 hours). Grand Randonnées are 1200km and riders must finish in 90 hours or less

All rides to be a fair test of what can be done in the time limits - ie hilly is better than flat and mixed-terrain is ideal. Randos are traditionally on-road but not always so some doubletrack or an off-road link trail at 3am is to be encouraged. The perfect SRSR ride might be one with a few unknown-condition sections, some byways or forest road and some hills, one where you scrape in within the time limit genuinely done for, knowing you gave it all. A personal test of route aesthetics and solo riding effort management is the only aim, knowing what you can do within a distance and a time and then pushing it a little.

I guess for many of us the 200km is easy enough. 300km is a long ride though and the others should make for some memorable from-the-door riding experiences.

If you're doing it in time then why not do them as AUK DIYs and get a nice little Super Randonneur badge afterwards?

http://www.aukweb.net/diy/
http://www.aukweb.net/results/randonneur/ (SR but also you'd qualify for the Randonneur 2500 award)

I believe numbers on the internet and small shiny bits of metal can be quite the motivation for some...

I had considered that, looked into permanents a while back but was struggling with on-road comfort over 7-8hrs at that time and lost focus. To be honest it's the club-isms, the officiating and all that that I'm not fussed with. Having to apply for things and have someone else ratify it, the sort of thing I ride a bike to get away from : ) It's just riding a bike. I've enjoyed a 300km audax in the past though, some great bunch riding without the club roadie stuff, nothing against audax itself at all but I'd need to do an official audax for that bunch riding side of it. Might include one in all this. I like the distance steps and the time limits, for me the game is how close to cracking/failing can I get in that time and can plan a route to that point, there's a test in that. Similar to Ian B's big ride, Hells 500 was it? For someone else it might be just for motivation and not having the correct time proof etc might undermine a good ride.

I can get some patches done if that helps I'd even get a proper designer to do them this time ..

Fair enough :)

I can get some patches done if that helps

Of course it helps, although I'd want something pretty big / impressive after riding 1200k

I could invent the combined buffet big plate and randonneur patch?

I like the sound of this, but I do struggle with motivation (and time) to do some of these big rides, unless there is a competitive element - which for me makes a huge difference. Maybe I should compete against my chimp..... A 300km ride would be a good opener.....

I know what you mean about motivation. Excuse the ramble here .. I think I'm past competing ie caring how I compare to others and much more in tune with how I motivate myself or live up to what I say I want to do, hence that 'Call it = Do it' think sticking in my mind. Sometimes we just need to recognise the want to get something done for whatever reason and know we're being straight over why? My reason for this partly is I like (a type 2 like maybe) getting into that weird zone on the bike at times, the sleepiness and mental games of fatigue and enjoy/not enjoying it. I could do that in a race but I'd like to try it on my own terms so this is the vehicle to get me there. You could try to top what others log over a 300 or a 600, nothing wrong with a bit of comparison upmanship, or try to extend and still complete your own route in the time limit next year?

I'll be going for my SR next year as well. Just the 2,3,4&6 variety though

In order to make it a bit more challenging you could make them all AAA routes?
http://www.aukweb.net/results/aaa/aaavnts/aaaqual/

Matt, if you fancy company on the short rides, let me know.

some nice rides out of Hebbers, Spring into the Dales and the 3 Coasts for your biggy.

ton wrote:Matt, if you fancy company on the short rides, let me know.

some nice rides out of Hebbers, Spring into the Dales and the 3 Coasts for your biggy.

Spring into the Dales is on the list if you fancy it?
Mr Crossland makes sure that one of the controls is a pub

(Stuart, maybe this belongs in trips and adventures and could be moved?)

A bit late starting this 'series' this year. I'm not complaining, some other great rides cropped up instead. Updating as, well I said I was going to have a go, so ..

First up, the 300km. FAIL.

Route :

I decided to make the 300km a mixed-terrain ride. 200km is a long day ride distance that I'm confident on and for 300km to be mixed-terrain would make it difficult, but within the Audax 20hr limit it shouldn't be an issue.
The Ridgeway ITT is 280km and one end of the Ridgeway is 12km from my home - ideal. An excuse to try the official Ridgeway double route without the pressure of aiming at a time on that - learning audax pace for the longer rides is the aim. Was a last-min descision to try it yesterday but the RW is running well and recent rain shouldn't have been an issue, plus I missed a long ride opportunity last weekend due to work, so why not.

How it went :

OK to start with, the RW Double ITT course is a much faster route over the eastern half then the RW-based ride I usually do. Mark Goldie did a good job of some re-routing to make it a legal route and that means fewer cheeky singletracks, actually ideal on the fat-tyre drop bar bike I'm using for these rides. I was pleased with the time I was making but there was a strong head wind that was going to be an issue once up on the ridge on the outward leg towards Overton hill.

Stopped at Goring to grab some food - I wanted these rides to be representative of multi-day pace and require finding supplies on the way, as will be needed on a 600. My average speed dropped 0.5mph just at that stop - just a long queue in the shop and a quick scoff of some food.

By around 100km in I was feeling fine energy-wise but a recent (and stupid) hard-pace test ride a few weeks back on a new bike with narrow cranks and tester pedals with no real float (wellgos .. dreadful, binned) gave me some knee tendon or ITB type issues that still flare up after a few hours. 'Audax pace' (I think) up to that point was keeping pressure off but it was starting to inflame again. 120km and it was hurting more. Negative thoughts of reaching Overton Hill and being reduced to a walk uphill on the return. Rain forecast around my estimated get-home time if I was going well. Not happy with the risk of the impact on the summer's riding if I make a minor injury worse. Turned around. Got home pedalling almost 1-legged over the last 30-40km. Just inflamation rather than anything serious but painful at the time.

Total - 208km done in comfortably under Audax pace and, until the knee pain, at a steady-brisk pace that I'm happy with. Not claiming this as a 200km success though, rather a 300km fail since this is about planning and predicting the ride in advance rather than my usual wing-it attitude. Luckily never had any real injury issues that haven't come from crashes or bike fit that I've adjusted out so this bail-out was a new one. Good for the experience, bad for my knee : /

Lessons :

- Don't stop for long when the clock's running - I know that but I rarely if ever pay attention to av speed in this way so seeing the av speed drop 0.5mph after just over 4hrs was a reminder. If I were cutting it fine against the time limit it would get interesting if I needed a food stop, or sleep, esp on the longer rides.
- Routes need to be tougher if they were to push the terrain or climbing mix against audax times, but not much. (13:30 for 200 KM, 20:00 for 300 KM, 27:00 for 400 KM, 40:00 for 600 KM, and 75:00 for 1000 KM. - from ACP site)
- Confirmation that a quick-handling drop bar bike on Horizon tyres doesn't mix too well with Ridgeway ruts and a strong head/sidewind!

Will try again on the same route after some rest. Prob aim for a good 200km mix-terrain then back to this 300km.

I'm pretty much in envy of those doing all these super long rides, both the ability to do them and having the time to do them, and recover for family and work.

I did my first solo 200k a few weeks back (actually 204k) in 10hours overall time (8.5hr moving), but was very much struggling the last 2 hours. Still, with the pain of the ride fading to enjoyment, I am still looking to try to get a solo 300k in this year. Really just looking for a mythical work/family/weather window to come along.

Any tips for stepping up to 300? Or is it largely just managing pace and feeding?

Moder-dye wrote:Any tips for stepping up to 300? Or is it largely just managing pace and feeding?

Not that I've done many 300km road rides .. and zero actual controlled audaxes .. but I'd say so, if you can do 200km in 8.5/10hrs then yes - pace and feeding. 1.5hrs stopping time is a fair bit but if you could stop less and ride slower then the last 2hrs may have felt relatively easier and got you that same finish time - still well under the 13hr limit. I suspect the perfect long ride is about consistency and starts at a pace that seems slow, then feels about right in the middle and hard but not impossible at the end - but hasn't actually changed that much along the way.

Cheers, yeh. The stopping time was lengthened mainly due to a very slow serving cafe stop half way and a lengthy chat with work colleagues who stopped me until I said I needed to move on because i was getting cold.

Avoiding a cafe and buying a shop snack would have been much more efficient as well as cutting my conversation shorter.

certainly backing off the pace a touch would have helped. Anyone use a hrm to monitor effort level? I do have one and use it for the turbo. I guess another way would be to have an overall managable average speed in mind like a 10mph average?

I was concentrating on spinning without too much pressure in the pedals, but in retrospect i was certainly working harder than i needed to as I was really just after completing distance, but I knew my wife would be wondering where I'd got to lol!

A chat at the cafe's all well and good though!

Moder-dye wrote:Anyone use a hrm to monitor effort level? I do have one and use it for the turbo.

I was avoiding getting onto potentially dull / training-related stuff but I was going to say, if you have a HRM then do some 2-3hr rides at Z2 / ~65-69% of max, or check your heart rate at that point on the flat where pace means you're just starting to breathe faster than you would be when walking, that's usually close enough to your upper Z2 limit. It seems really slow and it's hard to get up hills in Z2, but it won't seem quite as easy after just 3hrs, certainly not after 7 or 8 hours. It's a really good lesson in pacing imo/ime. Every effort beyond 80-85% is a 'match burned' and we all have a limited number of matches in the box for each ride.

Moder-dye wrote:Any tips for stepping up to 300? Or is it largely just managing pace and feeding?

In my experience 300 wasn't as much of a jump as I expected. I'd done a bunch of 200km brevets + riding to/from the start bumped them up to 240-260km. As it turns out 300 was just a long (and in my case hilly and snowy) day ride. Picking a well catered event made up for the weather and to date it was probably the most enjoyable AUK event I've been on (and probably in my top 5 bike rides...)

400km - didn't get round to one last year, wasn't looking forward to it and feel I'd probably struggle, typically a full night of riding is required as it's hard to build up enough time to get a "reasonable" amount of sleep (2h or more) making it a very long day unless you can keep to a 30km/h average (which I do not...)

600km - again, easier than expected, having done the BB200 and other overnight/short-sleep bikepacking rides, the idea of plodding along until 2am, napping in a field for 2 hours and then groggily grinding my way to coffee at a motorway service station and then basically just trundling home wasn't that big of a deal.

Cheers Jameso, know the theory but need to practise it! In door rides at that pace are fine, I've struggled though outdoors with hills and wind. Tried MAF for a while in and out.
Just fitted a long cage and 11-36t for just that reason and for light touring (obviously not road bikepacking )

Moder-dye wrote:Cheers, yeh. The stopping time was lengthened mainly due to a very slow serving cafe stop half way and a lengthy chat with work colleagues who stopped me until I said I needed to move on because i was getting cold.

Avoiding a cafe and buying a shop snack would have been much more efficient as well as cutting my conversation shorter.

certainly backing off the pace a touch would have helped. Anyone use a hrm to monitor effort level? I do have one and use it for the turbo. I guess another way would be to have an overall managable average speed in mind like a 10mph average?

I did a couple of long (for me) rides last year, concentrating on 10mph overall average. I certainly became very aware of how any stops at all ate into that - photo stops and shops are bad enough but eating in pub/cafe/restaurant just sees your time disappear. I can set up "Overall Average" as a field on my Oregon for keeping an eye on it when the brain is getting tired. I also made a crib sheet of towns/shops with distances and target departure times.

http://www.blog.scotroutes.com/2016/07/10.html

and

http://www.blog.scotroutes.com/2016/09/ ... n-day.html

Remember doing a 4 hour training ride during the winter with a total stopped time of 20minutes (traffic, photos, snack and lights), was quite pleased with that until I realised it was worth 5miles!

Yeh read blog Scotroutes which got me thinking on the 10mph thing.

.. and the elegance of the audax / brevet challenge is that the longer you go for the harder it becomes to keep that average speed (about 9mph min for the time limits). In the 2016 TransContinental, Kristoff Allegaert averaged 12mph over ~8.5 days including stops and sleeping. 15mph when on the bike. That's incredible... and in 8 days he only spent 12 hours stopped.

200,300,400 completed here
600 next weekend at the 3 Coasts which i'm aware a few people on here are going along to.

So far reasonably straight forwards.
I'd say to anyone who can do a 200 can easily step up to a 300. As Andy says its similar just a few more miles.
300 to 400 though is a bigger step and from what I hear from others harder than a 600 (i'll just keep telling myself that). Generally a 5am start when you've had a broken nights sleep and then you'll be out for a good 22-24 hours. Everyone will have a wobble at 1am when your body questions what you're doing.

Generally i'll expect to loose 3kph from my moving average to my overall average to account for stops, and thats being well organised. On shorter rides you can probably get away without stopping too much but you'll need to as the distances increase.

As for effort, just listen to your legs. Sometimes you'll feel good and you can turn it up a bit, other times you'll know that pace isnt sustainable so its best to knock it back.

When I did the Ridgeway Double ITT, I didn't stop anywhere for food but carried it all with me. I was watching the clock and in trying to get a reasonable time pushed a bit hard on the first leg - so much so that I got to Overton Hill, I consumed a Pork pie and had a nap for 20 minutes - I'd managed the first leg in 8 hours. I was however sleep deprived from the week at work and the early-ish start, so was on the backfoot to begin with.
I was then a bit more spent than I had anticipated and the return leg took me 10.5 hours! (Lap 1 = out, Lap 2 = snooze, Lap3 = return if you're interested here). I had a few mental barriers to overcome which I reckon cost me an hour easily.

There's a lot to be said for watching the clock and pacing appropriately - simple stuff, but easier said than done and often only really learnt through experience so you know how you personally cope.

The biggest time saver I've found on audaxes is 'going alpine' carrying almost all your food for an entire ride. Eat when you want, no sitting about. Not very social but good for solo days out.

jameso wrote: All rides to be a fair test of what can be done in the time limits - ie hilly is better than flat and mixed-terrain is ideal. Randos are traditionally on-road but not always so some doubletrack or an off-road link trail at 3am is to be encouraged.

You are describing some of the routing on the Wessex SR audax rides! If it doesn't have grass up the middle, you've taken a wrong turn.