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SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got left

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:44 pm
by slarge
So a week before the a Tuscany a Trail, my SP dynamo hub has developed grumbly bearings and a tiny amount of play (less than 1mm at the rim). The wheel spins fine, and the dynamo works fine, but do I risk the Tuscany Trail with it? How do these things normally fail?

I have a spare non dynamo wheel, which means I would take battery packs to keep the electrics going, just the dynamo would be more convenient. Do I risk it?

Cheers

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:47 pm
by Bearbonesnorm
I think you already know the answer Steve :wink:

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:48 pm
by Chew
I'd say either way its probably going to be in the back of your mind all of the time if you take it?

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:59 pm
by slarge
Bearbonesnorm wrote:I think you already know the answer Steve :wink:
Thanks Stu, but in this moment of uncertainty I need some knowledgeable souls to tell me what to do.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:18 pm
by Zippy
How difficult is it to actually swap them?

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:26 pm
by Dave Barter
Steve if wheel size is 650B you can have a lend of mine.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:43 pm
by ianfitz
Zippy wrote:How difficult is it to actually swap them?
Not user serviceable. They apparently use a massive press due to the magnets.

Yeah bitch, magnets! (With apologies if you haven't seen breaking bad!)

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:46 pm
by ianfitz
slarge wrote:
Bearbonesnorm wrote:I think you already know the answer Steve :wink:
Thanks Stu, but in this moment of uncertainty I need some knowledgeable souls to tell me what to do.
If they are grumbly and rumbley then they last a while, both in terms of producing power and actually turning!

If there is significant play when you push the wheel side to side then power generation will cease pretty soon in my experience (of three replacements...)

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:01 pm
by slarge
Cheers Dave for the offer, but they're 29 inch wheels.

I think I'll put the non dynamo hub on, and probably replace the SP with a Son hub at some point. Not been too impressed with the reliability of the SP hub, and it seems I am not the only one. And every time it fails it's a wheel rebuild - even for bearing replacement.

Thanks all, as Chew said, it will always be a niggling doubt, and I know where it will fail - just at the point where there are no bike shops and it's 10 past midnight.....

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:11 pm
by ianfitz
slarge wrote:Cheers Dave for the offer, but they're 29 inch wheels.

I think I'll put the non dynamo hub on, and probably replace the SP with a Son hub at some point. Not been too impressed with the reliability of the SP hub, and it seems I am not the only one. And every time it fails it's a wheel rebuild - even for bearing replacement.

Thanks all, as Chew said, it will always be a niggling doubt, and I know where it will fail - just at the point where there are no bike shops and it's 10 past midnight.....
As I've posted several times before. Get your Dynamo wheel built by 18 bikes (or other really good LBS) they have liaised with Ison to get new hubs and never charged a penny beyond the initial purchase. They even got me a refund from Ison after the third one broke. Then rebuilt the wheel with the son hub I bought elsewhere (they couldn't get one) for free.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:28 am
by Bearbonesnorm
I'd say either way its probably going to be in the back of your mind all of the time if you take it?
That's really what I meant :wink:

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:42 am
by Trail-rat
has anyone actually had a look ?

i mean just how big a press we talking ?

i appreciate its not in everyones garage but i have a 20t in the garage - and access to a monster 150ton at work......

just curious as i have 2 SP hubs that will likely need bearings in their future.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:33 am
by ianfitz
Trail-rat wrote:has anyone actually had a look ?

i mean just how big a press we talking ?

i appreciate its not in everyones garage but i have a 20t in the garage - and access to a monster 150ton at work......

just curious as i have 2 SP hubs that will likely need bearings in their future.
I guess not many will have that set up! I've no idea what's inside

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:14 am
by Dave Barter
slarge wrote:Cheers Dave for the offer, but they're 29 inch wheels.
I also have an SP on a 700c cyclocross rim if that helps?

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:20 am
by Trail-rat
absolutely.

sounds like a project when the time comes :ugeek: although reading into it and looking at the hub and various drawings. - i suspect its made in two halfs then bonded together and the ring "clamped" round the middle.

Would be nice to fit proper bearings as the ones used are no namers with limited sealing. dunno about you guys but i could live with a little more drag in lieu of sealing or even ceramic hybrids.......

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 9:12 pm
by Javi
Hey Steve, same problem with the sp here. Twice has failed. First time it was replaced under warranty in record time but again failed and on the move is difficult to coordinate a proper rescue. Really fed up and next time I'll put a SON.
Had to buy an etrex and still learning how to use it. Not happy for last minute trouble for htr.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:43 pm
by slarge
Javi, I've gone down the route of external battery packs for my edge800. I think 4 will keep me going (and it's the approach I used for my first HTR). Disappointed in the SP hub, but I have a scrap one from my first warranty replacement that I might cut up to have a look inside.

Good luck on the HTR !

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:52 am
by Trail-rat
Slarge - if you do cut it up i would be interested in seeing photos to see if its something i can work with - and to save destroying mine which are still under warrenty.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:04 am
by Zippy
Trail-rat wrote: i mean just how big a press we talking ?

i appreciate its not in everyones garage but i have a 20t in the garage -
I'd be surprised if a bicycle hub bearings needed something bigger than this. I suspect I'll also have one of these in my arsenal in the not too distant future, so anyone local wants to use it, they'd be welcome :cool:
Trail-rat wrote:Slarge - if you do cut it up i would be interested in seeing photos to see if its something i can work with - and to save destroying mine which are still under warrenty.
This and some exploded diagrams should help a lot of people out I would have thought.

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:46 am
by Trail-rat
"Alas, SP hub dynamos are not user serviceable and indeed we are aware of no hub dynamos that are based on manufacturer’s recommendations. Any attempt to service a SP hub dynamo will void its two-year warranty. We have received quite a number of requests from consumers on how they might service their hubs even accepting that attempting to do so would void their two-year warranty. They accept this risk thinking that this would save the need to disassemble and rebuild the wheel. Unfortunately, the design of SP hub dynamos like that of many other brands requires disassembly of the wheel for bearing replacement. Furthermore, the delicate generator mechanism housed within the hub body must be re-calibrated to tolerances of less than a millimetre each time bearings are replaced. Failure to carry out this operation properly (which is likely without expert knowledge, experience and tools), will generally result in catastrophic failure of the generator mechanism after a period of use. SP engineers have considered making their hubs user serviceable (with much prodding from IDC at the behest of our technically savvy testers). But the expertise and equipment required to carry out recalibration of the generator mechanism each time the bearings are replaced presents a technical hurdle that SP engineers, and indeed all other hub dynamo manufacturers we are aware of, have so far declined to attempt."
it seems its this recalibration of less than a mm is whats stopping you servicing them - ive worked to closer tollerances. So long as i understand what it is im tryign to achieve.....

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:51 am
by Zippy
A dial gauge is hardly expensive Image

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:06 am
by johnnystorm
Reading that quote and considering that one of my SP's will be over 2 years old when/if it does go I might as well just bin the wheel as the faff of disassembly, sending abroad, and reassembling into a potentially already battered wheel seems a bit pointless. :shock:

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:32 am
by ctznsmith
johnnystorm wrote:Reading that quote and considering that one of my SP's will be over 2 years old when/if it does go I might as well just bin the wheel as the faff of disassembly, sending abroad, and reassembling into a potentially already battered wheel seems a bit pointless. :shock:
You only have to send it back to Ison and they send you another (not new) hub with new bearings. I think when I did it they sent me the hub with new bearings before I'd even returned the worn out one.

They also offer a service to rebuilld the wheel for you (at a cost obviously).

If you haven't dinged your rim so much it has flat spots/damaged bead hooks I don't see why you would chuck a perfectly serviceable rim?

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:05 am
by johnnystorm
My new sp hub (250ish miles) is making a funny "cracking" noise every so often as the front wheel turns. :-bd
Need to buy some earplugs or just hum a bit louder perhaps...

Re: SP dynamo hub grumbly bearings - how long have they got

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:56 pm
by ctznsmith
trust me that noise get worse and hub becomes noticeably stiffer to spin. :cry: