Warning geek content ahead

Having pitched an Alpkit Rig7 not very well at the weekend, I had a look at Stuart's guide (in two parts) to it on the review/blog section here and noted that he only mentions the bowline for attaching lines to the tarp but not other useful knots. Coming from a climbing background I know a few knots and hitches but they aren't necessarily ideal for tarps.

I found this site http://www.netknots.com which has clear instructions on how to make most knots you might need. So Bowline: http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/bowline/

Unless you manage to pitch on ground that has uniform density you'll need some form of tensioning system. There's two hitches very similar to one another: the midshipman's http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/midshipmans-hitch and the taut line http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/tautline-hitch/

One other that might be useful if you use a hammock is the trucker's hitch: http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/truckers-hitch/ as it's strong enough to support weight, I've used this back on the farm to tie down hay bales on a trailer, basically it's intended use.

Any others that folk find useful?

Any others that folk find useful?

Line-Locs

I use a variation of the trucker's hitch, locked with a second slippery half hitch. I think.

+1 for tautline. Simple and works

Charliecres wrote:I use a variation of the trucker's hitch, locked with a second slippery half hitch. I think.

My dad always put several twists in to the start of the hitch (i.e. three or four twists in the standing rope before completing the slippery half hitch), makes it a lot easier to undo afterwards especially in traditional style ropes.

Stuart - you know what I mean

Prusik knots of various fashions. It's what I use most on tarps (continuous loop larksheaded off tarp tie-out and then prusik knot onto a single strand of line with a loop at one end to peg through). Arguably you could reverse the single strand, larks head the loop off the tarp and simply wrap round a peg (I find the stake-kind with 3 edges work best) to tie off. The former has the benefit of being adjustable from under / close to the tarp. The continuous loop and prusik knot effectively "replace" a line-lok.

Most of this comes from or is more extensively detailed on the US site hammockforum.net. It's a good resource and some of the posters on there tend to be about knots The single line technique is what features on videos and advice from Warbonnet Hammocks.

I tend to make all my guy lines out of braided dyneema cord which has high strength and can be spliced but can be slightly temperamental with regular knots. In hammocking (and climbing) knots can significantly reduce the strength of a chord / rope / sling so they tend to seek alternatives or options that have less effective, or are simply possible to untie after being loaded. At times I've ab'd off an overhand knot joining two ropes, though I only realised when my mate pulled it to the second point It's similar in hammocking because a lot of stuff is supporting the whole bodyweight and high loads / forces can occur depending on the angle of the suspension. For tarps and tie-outs there's less load and it's probably not as critical.

Marlin spike hitch is good for hanging hammocks off tree straps (i.e. with only one stitched end), remember, on the knot, not the stick

The knot used to tie off simple, single cord as featured on Hennesey Hammocks / their website is also handy to know.

Always like a slipped clove hitch as well.

Knots are basically great and a useful bit of knowledge. Not essential, and not necessarily better than any other option but I like 'em

Newbie to the bikepacking thing and only been out under a tarp a few times but quickly learnt the importance of knowing a few knots. Siberian hitch and truckers hitch at each end of a ridge line work really well for me along with Prussiks for tensioning the tarp along the ridge, useful if you want to adjust the position of the tarp along the ridge line. Then taught line hitches for the guy lines or clove hitch if using free standing poles.

Took me few attempts to get to the stage where it didn't look like collapsed washing line. Practised in the garden a few times before we did a multi day trip last year and that definitely paid off. Neighbours thought I was more than a little bit weird though!

When drunk, it tends to be a whatknot!

A highwaymans hitch may be useful when putting up a line to throw the tarp over (sorry unsure of correct terminology)

Secure but really easy to take down.

http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/highwaymans-hitch/

Same as Stu - Linelocs - little triangle ones.

Can't be arsed faffing with knots after a very long days riding.

EDIT: Should point that a double fishermans also works well to join lines, add some tension, but only if there is going to be light wind.

I really don't understand this desire to use a seperate ridge-line to drape a tarp over. I know you see it a lot but it often prevents you acheiving as taught a pitch as possible and also abrades the waterproof coating on the tarp ... what's wrong with 2 short lines, one each end of the tarp and use the tarp as an integral part of the whole structure?

Answers on a postcard

GregMay wrote:Same as Stu - Linelocs - little triangle ones.

Can't be arsed faffing with knots after a very long days riding.

EDIT: Should point that a double fishermans also works well to join lines, add some tension, but only if there is going to be light wind.

I know what you mean Greg but if you are leaving a lineloc on a line then you are also likely to have the knot/hitch already there if you used that instead of the lineloc, i.e. you'd tie it once then leave it unless you removed the line from the tarp to use it for something else.

Double fishermans? Hmm, like me I imagine you've had "fun" trying to untie one of those after abseiling off a route or crag Ended up using an overhand with long tails.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I really don't understand this desire to use a seperate ridge-line to drape a tarp over. I know you see it a lot but it often prevents you acheiving as taught a pitch as possible and also abrades the waterproof coating on the tarp ... what's wrong with 2 short lines, one each end of the tarp and use the tarp as an integral part of the whole structure?

Answers on a postcard

The Ray Mears effect?

Possibly comes from traditional style tarps that were just a rectangle of material without tie-outs so the only way was to make a ridge-line and drape it over. Like you I don't see much point with modern lightweight tarps.

whitestone wrote:

GregMay wrote:Same as Stu - Linelocs - little triangle ones.

Can't be arsed faffing with knots after a very long days riding.

EDIT: Should point that a double fishermans also works well to join lines, add some tension, but only if there is going to be light wind.

I know what you mean Greg but if you are leaving a lineloc on a line then you are also likely to have the knot/hitch already there if you used that instead of the lineloc, i.e. you'd tie it once then leave it unless you removed the line from the tarp to use it for something else.

Double fishermans? Hmm, like me I imagine you've had "fun" trying to untie one of those after abseiling off a route or crag Ended up using an overhand with long tails.

Why would you be removing the line from the tarp? Honest question - if you want to rotate lines to different points - use a short mini biner as a direct clip so you can pop on an off with a double fig-8 on the other end - quicker and opens up rotation options if you want.

Agree with FMs under tension, it's only some thing I'd do if I know I won't be taking it out with my fingers :)

GregMay wrote: Why would you be removing the line from the tarp? Honest question - if you want to rotate lines to different points - use a short mini biner as a direct clip so you can pop on an off with a double fig-8 on the other end - quicker and opens up rotation options if you want.

Agree with FMs under tension, it's only some thing I'd do if I know I won't be taking it out with my fingers :)

Sorry, didn't make myself clear (not the first time!). At the adjustment end of the line you can use either a lineloc or a locking hitch like the taut line, once you've set them up it doesn't matter as you aren't going to be dismantling either system when you take down the tarp in the morning, you just stuff the whole caboodle in to whatever bag and move on.

Similarly at the tarp attachment end: either a mini-krab and figure of eight knot on the line or a Bowline. Use what you are happy with, either works fine. With the Alpkit tarps I find that threading a line through the attachment points is a bit awkward until they've been used once or twice so in those instances a krab would be better.

whitestone wrote:

GregMay wrote: Why would you be removing the line from the tarp? Honest question - if you want to rotate lines to different points - use a short mini biner as a direct clip so you can pop on an off with a double fig-8 on the other end - quicker and opens up rotation options if you want.

Agree with FMs under tension, it's only some thing I'd do if I know I won't be taking it out with my fingers :)

Sorry, didn't make myself clear (not the first time!). At the adjustment end of the line you can use either a lineloc or a locking hitch like the taut line, once you've set them up it doesn't matter as you aren't going to be dismantling either system when you take down the tarp in the morning, you just stuff the whole caboodle in to whatever bag and move on.

Similarly at the tarp attachment end: either a mini-krab and figure of eight knot on the line or a Bowline. Use what you are happy with, either works fine. With the Alpkit tarps I find that threading a line through the attachment points is a bit awkward until they've been used once or twice so in those instances a krab would be better.

Agree.

Two nice resources I've used:

Ray Mears tells us whats what:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG_-N4NiSlo
Handy gifs of all the knots:
http://www.animatedknots.com/

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I really don't understand this desire to use a seperate ridge-line to drape a tarp over. I know you see it a lot but it often prevents you acheiving as taught a pitch as possible and also abrades the waterproof coating on the tarp ... what's wrong with 2 short lines, one each end of the tarp and use the tarp as an integral part of the whole structure?

Answers on a postcard

There are some advantages but more for convenience than any structural benefit.
For example when in a hammock it can make a great place to clip lights or small ditties when the hammock doesn't have its own ridgeline.

I've also used it to hold midge netting up from a bivi to create more room, though a small grossgrain loop would do the same.

Ofcourse I never just drape the tarp, I usually hook it upto a ridgeline with prussics to create tension. But most of the time I just use 2 tie outs like you, its just nice to have options on more relaxed trips.


On topic! Just tautline and prussic all the way, easy to tie in any condition with enough muscle memory, anything else seems to fail when I'm half asleep and cold.

MikeOnabike wrote:Two nice resources I've used:

Ray Mears tells us whats what:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG_-N4NiSlo
Handy gifs of all the knots:
http://www.animatedknots.com/

I like this bit from the animated knots site:

The Midshipman's Hitch is promoted by Ashley (ABOK # 1993, p 325) as the only knot to tie in the following unlikely but critical circumstance: you fall overboard and catch hold of the line which you have prudently left trailing astern and find yourself hanging on with difficulty. Before you tyre, you manage to bring the bitter end of the rope around your back. You then have to tie a suitable knot to make a loop around you. A bowline cannot be tied under load. Two Half Hitches will slide and constrict you. The Rolling Hitch is the answer. Even as the second turn is tucked "up" into the correct place, the major strain is taken and the final Half Hitch can be tied with less urgency.


Just what's needed for some of the fords on the BB200!

Tarped in Peaks night before last. 8x10 and some 1m and 2m x 1.5mm dyneema and Stu carbon pegs and poles. Flying V. Up in 60 seconds no faffing with ridgelines. All lines got luminous minilineloks one end and bowline the other. Push bowline slightly thru tarp loop then linelok end thru bowline and feed it all thru down to the peg. Easy to link several lines together too if desired. A chilly nite near Edale being nibbled by sheep. Might bore u with it later in 'todays ride'.

"Reg"

A-frame? Same lines etc. Clove hitch round top of poles if u want them away from the tarp for lower pitch. Flying V and lost yer poles? Few loops round a tree with a slippery 'alf 'itch. Other three corners pegged to ground. One line half hitched round a handy stick to make a lifter to keep the tarp off yer bag (don't call me an old bag says Mrs Perrin, <whack> <WHACK>. Sigh. Night-night children, nighty-nighty :( ).

Sorry meant clove hitch for lifter above. Was suffering under the hail of blows from Mrs P.