I am interested in what training is available in Bikepacking, or MTB focussed on 'our sort of riding'; efficient XC progress for long multi-day self-supported rides, with camp craft, navigation and other relevant skills. Not the normal trail centre / Bike Park stuff.

Does anybody have any insight into what recognised qualifications exist, and what governing bodies have oversight of this niche area, if any?

I think the MBLA had a syllabus, which I believe now has some affiliation with British Cycling, so perhaps they are the 'recognised' national body. I remember buying a book from them some years ago, which seemed obsessed with dreadful trailers, panniers and rucksacks - not sure if it is still stuck in the dark ages or if a more enlightened approach has been adopted.
I know there are other training bodies, such as MIAS, but not sure how much 'credibility' their qualifications have now.
No idea if there is anything internationally.

My interest does not stem from a commercial enterprise, although I would like to lead some non-profit expeds in due course, therefore want to establish what is regarded as best practice in this area.

MBLA indeed do the "expedition" syllabus.
I asked about this whilst doing my leaders course and it was very much trailer based with a kit list not dissimilar to a DoE trip (three fleeces, tea towels, 5 pairs of socks, etc, etc).
MBLA expeditions are very different to what we'd describe as bikepacking.

SMBLA used to have an 'expedition module' that you could do once you'd completed your TCL. I don't know whether it still exists now that SMBLA is MBLA. Both the TCL and MBL used to include plenty of nav' training and emergency type stuff in the SMBLA days but it would appear that standards have dropped since BC took the reigns.

I recall looking at it a few years ago and I too was shocked at the trailers, 70L rucksacks and panniers / racks involved. As far as I'm aware, that was the only thing available that could possibly be considered bikepacking training.

Why do you want a 'qualification'?

Glenmore Lodge do some courses that you might find useful, e.g. http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cat-26- ... on-3-days/

Trailers are available to borrow but they do not appear to be compulsory. A suggested kit list is attached, but it's mainly focussing on personal gear. GL always suggest you do their courses before buying specialist kit so that you are better informed when doing so.

There is also an Expedition Module for the MBL

http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cat-26- ... -training/

You might contact Kurt Refsnider. His bikepacking racing and expedition “training/service” website is http://www.ultramtb.net/

Kurt is US based and may not be able to help regarding UK organization oriented concerns but would probably be worth some conversation.

To be able to gain insurance for 'bikepacking expeditions' and coaching you probably would need mbla or mountain leader qualifications. I dont really think you would be able to get a formal qualification in bikepacking. Just like to get insurance to guide clients off piste sking, out of bounds from a ski area you would need to be a qualified mountain guide, unnecessary in my opinion.

Backcountry biking in aviemore are the only company that I am aware of that does the sort of thing you are talking about.

Cheers

Chris

Many thanks for the response; much as I expected really.

Zippy - by qualification I mean an award recognised by a legitimate governing body. This is linked to safety assurance / risk mitigation for the body authorising / financing the exped.

What if we where designing a syllabus for Bikepacking from the ground up - what would you suggest are the key training objectives to deliver a competent exped leader?

I would start with:

Knowledge:
- Safety Management (understanding hazards and mitigation)
- Route Planning (using electronic/online methods as well as traditional)
- Nutrition
- Emergency Actions / Contingency Planning
- Bike maintenance
- Environmental awareness - weather, terrain, altitude, etc

Skills:
- Efficient X-Country Riding (not bunny hops and other trail centre stuff)
- Practical Navigation
- Control of a Group
- Camp Craft (site selection, shelter, food, water, etc)
- Technical Riding
- Bike Trailside Repairs
- First Aid

I'm sure there are other key areas I am forgetting

The MBLA syllabus cover everything you mention there but the ideas about campcraft and luggage and kit list differs massively from our ideas.
Bikepacking allows you to take little to ride faster, MBLA Expeditions suggest you take rucksacks, trailers or panniers. None of which are great on a bike.
Referring to my handbook it suggest 2 pairs of trousers, 2 mid layers, 2 base layers so one can be washed overnight, travel towel, the list goes on, ffs.

I really hope that no governing body ever decides to take a closer look at bikepacking ... the very fact that no one's interested, is one of the things that makes it great and long may it continue.

I think the MBLA kit lists are completely valid for bikepacking, especially if introducing people to it.

A lot of bikepacking efficiency comes with experience and judgement, so you progressively stop taking things you don't need. I think it's risky to train someone to not take spare kit, because they'll think they don't need to take spare kit, whereas the experienced bikepacker will read the conditions and make a judgement call around what they take. Similarly, if you're trying to introduce someone to bikepacking, they'll likely need more home comforts than someone who is happy wearing their chamois for three days and has an established masochistic streak around the wearing of wet kit.

The worst thing you can do is put them off on their first outing...

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I really hope that no governing body ever decides to take a closer look at bikepacking ... the very fact that no one's interested, is one of the things that makes it great and long may it continue.

ZeroDarkBivi wrote:What if we where designing a syllabus for Bikepacking from the ground up - what would you suggest are the key training objectives to deliver a competent exped leader?

Anyone who needs to be taught how to do something, isnt really going to get on with some of the hardship that ultimately comes with Bikepacking. The sort of person who is going to take to Bikepacking is the kind of individual whos happy get just get out there and work it out for themselves and then has the mindset to work all those things out above.

Remember, you can't plan adventure......


If people want to get out theres plenty of people on here who would happily welcome someone inexperienced out on a trip and learn as you go.

Bearbonesnorm wrote:I really hope that no governing body ever decides to take a closer look at bikepacking ... the very fact that no one's interested, is one of the things that makes it great and long may it continue.

This!

+1 from me too.

Activities that are on the fringe of (or niches within) larger sports have to tread quite carefully since many assume/misunderstand that they are covered by the same framework. I don't think bikepacking (as understood by users of this forum) needs or would be well served by a "qualification", if the MBLA syllabus covers biking with camping gear then leave it at that. Unless the guide knows the client then guiding in most sports is well away from the headline adventurous stuff. Heading out on low technical terrain with something like a Bob trailer for a night or two in the outdoors would give most clients a decent weekend.

Chew wrote:
Anyone who needs to be taught how to do something, isnt really going to get on with some of the hardship that ultimately comes with Bikepacking. The sort of person who is going to take to Bikepacking is the kind of individual whos happy get just get out there and work it out for themselves and then has the mindset to work all those things out above.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. Bikepacking doesn't have to be about hardship and training can always be advantageous when learning a new skill. Even simple things like equipment selection can be picked up more quickly in the presence of an experienced practitioner.

Huw Oliver is an instructor at Glenmore, I reckon he knows a bit about bikepacking

https://topofests.wordpress.com/2015/11 ... kepacking/

ScotRoutes wrote:

Chew wrote:
Anyone who needs to be taught how to do something, isnt really going to get on with some of the hardship that ultimately comes with Bikepacking. The sort of person who is going to take to Bikepacking is the kind of individual whos happy get just get out there and work it out for themselves and then has the mindset to work all those things out above.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. Bikepacking doesn't have to be about hardship and training can always be advantageous when learning a new skill. Even simple things like equipment selection can be picked up more quickly in the presence of an experienced practitioner.

Huw Oliver is an instructor at Glenmore, I reckon he knows a bit about bikepacking

https://topofests.wordpress.com/2015/11 ... kepacking/

I also don't agree!
maybe a little training will develop essential skills which will help a person enjoy the experience.
Just going out for an adventure and hoping for the best is just plain reckless. if you don't know how to look after yourself and the bike you're just a 999 call waiting to happen.

Sorry to plug you Stu, BUT...

If you want some training, book a course from here.
http://www.forestfreeride.co.uk/
Me and the wife went for the 2 day skills course and had an vaguely exciting time.
Stu does multi day guided trips. if you want to learn i could'nt think of a better way of doing it.

Woah Woah Woah.

"Skills", "Training" and "Qualifications" are all being used semi-interchangeably here, and they're all different (although often found used in conjunction with each other).

I believe Stu can very much help out on the Skill and Training front, not so sure about the qualification.

Jon wrote:Just going out for an adventure and hoping for the best is just plain reckless. if you don't know how to look after yourself and the bike you're just a 999 call waiting to happen.

IMO, we're just talking about going camping on a bike. Each to their own and everyone's personal comfort zone is different etc etc but sometimes I look at all the posts and the BS about this - "what bike for BP" as an example and wonder about some folks' sense of perspective.

Go out, have a laugh, don't take it too seriously. Whilst it might feel all big and scary, really "out there" and (shudder) "adventurous" (if anyone mentions "micro-a..." I will be very upset ) it really isn't all that. It's a bike and a bivi in the UK, not an arctic / deeper mongolia / wilds of nature expedition. It's great that folks do it and I know for some it is a "big step" but in reality it isn't, not really. I don't mean that as a criticism either

As for folks worrying about "qualifications" and popularity, I really doubt it. And besides, all sorts of things become "more popular" at some point, it's just the way of the world. You can never un-invent or turn back the clock on these things. Might as well shout at the tides or weather imo

HYOH

I whole-heartedly understand the backlash of feeling towards defining our recreational activity; most of us do this for fun and to get away from the formalities of routine life in the developed world. I certainly don't want trail police checking up on peoples papers! I also think training (formal or informal) is essential to accelerating the leaning process, in most activities, and when conducted well adds to the enjoyment. Bikepacking is a simple activity and learning from experience can be part of the fun - or it can make it unnecessary miserable, when people are not prepared properly.

The angle I am looking at this from is very simple; how to present an expedition concept, with associated risks, to the sponsor, who will resource the activity, and have a legal duty of care for those involved. Proof of competence, especially of the exped leader is paramount, and that is linked to both experience and formal, recognised qualifications.

Adventure might be an over-used term, and is definitely a relative, not absolute thing. For me it implies being challenge, operating at the edge of what is comfortable and has associated risks. I think the UK has become a risk averse society, and when people are held legally accountable they want assurance that the activity is being conducted in as safe a manner as practicable.

Didn't mean to upset anybody...!

I think your questions are very relevent, to what you hope to do.

Some replies are obviously from people who didn't read the last three lines of your original post.

Cheers

Chris

Justchris wrote:

Some replies are obviously from people who didn't read the last three lines of your original post.

I would be included in that!

It seems like there is no qualification that will do it. So its a case of breaking down the required skills and seeing what is out there. Expedition first aid/medicine, group work/ leadership, cycle maintenance, etc.

there's plenty of recognised qualifications in overlapping areas

ZeroDarkBivi wrote: Skills:
- Efficient X-Country Riding (not bunny hops and other trail centre stuff)

Joke right?

Bike packing training = oxymoron

Long time ago a mate did Lejog. I asked him about his training. He looked at me funny and said "I'll get fit on the way" ;-)