Now I understand the drawbacks, but curious about the consensus,
Who here uses a bivi bag as their sole shelter?
I'm referring to not using a tarp, but instead relying entirely on the fact a bivi bag is indeed a waterproof shelter (apparently)

Is it for nice weather nights only? Or a permanent choice to save weight. And are certain bags better suited to sole use than others.

If I know it'll be a nice (dry) night then I'll sometimes 'cowboy' camp ... if I think it might rain then forget it, sleeping in a bivvy quickly becomes miserable. You're wet, your stuffs wet, the stuff inside the bivvy becomes wet and there's nowhere to brew up

In a race situation I'd think differently but generally I much prefer a tarp and ultralite bivvy.

Is cowboy camping with or without a bivy?

I've slept in just a bivy with no tarp twice in the last two years, but both times I knew for certain that there would be no rain

I have a rab storm and a outdoor reserch helium. Never needed a tarp. Helium is like a single skinned tent bivi. Storm is 500g but packs small. Better for racing used in poor weather with no problems. Helium is 630g with pole. lots of room, used by my other half in torrential weather where it rained constantly for a week in Ireland. Worked flawlessly. Tarps have their place. But not really in a light weight set up. Bivi + tarp vs pole bivi. I would take the bivi every time. Less skill and practice to use. Using a tarp takes practice and experience. Looking for the correct undulation to make the tarp work. Tieing to bikes or poles. Hoping the wind doesn't change too much. When your exhausted a tarp is a pain. Imo.

Bear in mind I have a racing mentality and come from an alpinist background where due to wind tarps have limited use. I once was nearly knocked out by a flying tarp with pole on the mount blanc tacul.

Chris

Ps lots will disagree with me. I could be in for a hard time. Esp on this forum!!!!!! But there all wrong!!! : )

I've used just Bivi when I've known the weather was going to be OK or on terrain that a Tarp just doesn't work (like a sandy beach). Also handy for sleeping in doorways etc

I bivvied in the dug-out by the baseball field in Salida while doing Tour Divide. Was all good until the sprinklers came on at 3 am to water the field, but promptly watered me.

Is cowboy camping with or without a bivy?

In my mind, with bivvy / without tarp but I suppose if it's nice, then without a bivvy too.

I have a rab storm and a outdoor reserch helium. Never needed a tarp. Helium is like a single skinned tent bivi. Storm is 500g but packs small. Better for racing used in poor weather with no problems. Helium is 630g with pole. lots of room, used by my other half in torrential weather where it rained constantly for a week in Ireland. Worked flawlessly. Tarps have their place. But not really in a light weight set up. Bivi + tarp vs pole bivi. I would take the bivi every time. Less skill and practice to use. Using a tarp takes practice and experience. Looking for the correct undulation to make the tarp work. Tieing to bikes or poles. Hoping the wind doesn't change too much. When your exhausted a tarp is a pain. Imo.

Bear in mind I have a racing mentality and come from an alpinist background where due to wind tarps have limited use. I once was nearly knocked out by a flying tarp with pole on the mount blanc tacul.

Chris

Ps lots will disagree with me. I could be in for a hard time. Esp on this forum!!!!!! But there all wrong!!! : )

Chris - how do you go on when it's wet as above? You arrive somewhere soaked to the skin, unpack bivvy and erect it. So far so good but what now? How do you get out of your wet gear and into something dry then into the bivvy without getting yourself and everything else wet? It's a genuine question because it's something I've never been able to do.

You're right, a tarp does take a little practice but that's all. I don't think the fact it takes some effort / input should be enough to put anyone off using one, it's just practice ... knowledge weighs nothing.

IMO, the OP might not be comparing apples with apples. A Hunka (or XL) is something like 400 to 500g (IIRC) and the pretty "waterproof" option. If you're under a tarp then the level of protection required from a bivi, if one is necessary at all, is less. Personally I'd use something like a Borah or TiGoat which are both substantially lighter than a Hunka. With this in mind the weight difference between a tarp+bivi and a tent is probably more significant.

Like Stu says, neither's right or wrong. Personal preference / confidence / familiarity are as big, if not bigger, factors.

And saying all this I regularly decide to hang which is significantly heavier than a bivi+tarp and even possibly more than tenting it. But I like it and am happy with the compromise.

HYOH

+1 to the "it depends" answers.

I've a bivvy bag, a tarp and a mountain marathon lightweight tent. Depending on conditions all have their uses. For a single night trip I'll check the weather forecast and take what's appropriate. For multi night trips I'll be a bit more cautious unless I can rely on the weather.

The other week on the YD300 I just took a tarp as the forecast was for light overnight showers with incoming rain. So, as Stu talks about, I could get dressed in the morning and put most of the gear away whilst under shelter. Others were in race mode and had a light bivvy bag, one had a lightweight tent and camped down in the valley where it was muggy and still and midge hell so the tent was the better option.

A couple of weeks earlier we did the Wet Highland Way and was glad of having the bivvy bag as well as the tarp.

The base weight of the Alpkit 3.5 tarp is 270g while that of the TiGoat bivvy is 185g. You need a few guylines and pegs for the tarp so the difference is a bit more but even so it's not a lot.

It's more about know the strengths and weaknesses of your kit than the kit itself.

I think whatever you decide to carry will always involve a certain level of compromise ... the trick is to minimise just how much for the circumstances you're faced with. This also means that we can convince ourselves and more importantly others, that we require more gear to suit different situations - you don't expect a chef to have only one pan do you?

Depends on the bivvy as well.

I've spent some horrible (weather-wise) nights in my old Phoenix Phoxhole hooped Gore-tex bivvy, zipped in bar a small gap for air. The first proper night I used it was on a sea kayaking trip, on Barra, tucked in behind the cafe building at Aird Mhor in a force 7 and horizontal rain - slept like a log. The guys in tents fared worse than me.

Can't say I'd have the same confidence in my Borah bag, but it's a tenth of the weight and not designed for that kind of thing. I still have the Phoenix if I suspect it's going to end up filthy. Then again, last week in Alaska I also slept in a little block of woodland without a mat or sleeping bag, just tucked down in a comfy spot with my down jacket on, so all things are possible...

s8tannorm wrote:

Is cowboy camping with or without a bivy?

In my mind, with bivvy / without tarp but I suppose if it's nice, then without a bivvy too.

I have a rab storm and a outdoor reserch helium. Never needed a tarp. Helium is like a single skinned tent bivi. Storm is 500g but packs small. Better for racing used in poor weather with no problems. Helium is 630g with pole. lots of room, used by my other half in torrential weather where it rained constantly for a week in Ireland. Worked flawlessly. Tarps have their place. But not really in a light weight set up. Bivi + tarp vs pole bivi. I would take the bivi every time. Less skill and practice to use. Using a tarp takes practice and experience. Looking for the correct undulation to make the tarp work. Tieing to bikes or poles. Hoping the wind doesn't change too much. When your exhausted a tarp is a pain. Imo.

Bear in mind I have a racing mentality and come from an alpinist background where due to wind tarps have limited use. I once was nearly knocked out by a flying tarp with pole on the mount blanc tacul.

Chris

Ps lots will disagree with me. I could be in for a hard time. Esp on this forum!!!!!! But there all wrong!!! : )

Chris - how do you go on when it's wet as above? You arrive somewhere soaked to the skin, unpack bivvy and erect it. So far so good but what now? How do you get out of your wet gear and into something dry then into the bivvy without getting yourself and everything else wet? It's a genuine question because it's something I've never been able to do.

You're right, a tarp does take a little practice but that's all. I don't think the fact it takes some effort / input should be enough to put anyone off using one, it's just practice ... knowledge weighs nothing.

That's one of the huge compromises of just biving. With wet gear it is almost imposible to say entirely dry, but under a one man tarp lets be honest it would be almost impossible as well. A generous one man tent with an awning and you have a chance.

I also agree that people should not be put off using a tarp. In fact I think it's a mandatory skill, of someone back country travelling, along with reading a map and understanding basic navigational direction skills with and without using a compass. But with modern fabrics and tent/ poled bivi it is really not necessarily.

I did say I had a bit of a one track mind regarding tarps. If it's wet just keep going until a shelter of some description occurs. They always do.

I've got a tarp, and I do like it, but I'll never not think it's a faff. Recently all I've used has been my bivi, Hunka if its dry and im going light, my new OR helium if its going to be wet or midgey. I'm slowly falling in love with the helium, its light, packs small and deals exceptionally well with the wet and condensation. It's also very quick to put up and take down.

i have a slightly heavier gortex bivi bag that i have sewn a midge net in to and also some tabs for hooking to my bike to hold it open ( its got a large opening and im pretty short) this can turn it in to more like a bivi shelter but that works ok if its damp: this is the only photo i hav of it set up in my garden after i adapted the bag to put the midgi net on


... thugh do like a tarp and lighter bivi bag sometimes... though the bivi bag/ shelter thingy i made (above) is less bulky than 2 things

Ben98 wrote:I've got a tarp, and I do like it, but I'll never not think it's a faff. Recently all I've used has been my bivi, Hunka if its dry and im going light, my new OR helium if its going to be wet or midgey. I'm slowly falling in love with the helium, its light, packs small and deals exceptionally well with the wet and condensation. It's also very quick to put up and take down.

To those looking to buy an OR helium bivi would do well to look at the black diamond version. It's made by the same people but can be picked up for a few quid less usually.