Can anybody think of items which defy keith bontragers "strong, light, cheap pick two" saying?
All I can think of are foam roll mats, which obviously have other disadvantages, and single speeds, which obviously don't have to be cheap, but I think you get my drift?
Anything else anybody can think of?

Can think of plenty of industrial type things which are strong, heavy and expensive. I'm sure you can too. That seems to be the easiest combination to find.

Stu's Pole-a-bears!!

Water bottles

voodoo_simon wrote:Water bottles

Only when empty

--

Rim tape
Foam grips
Gear cables
Zip ties

My wallet...

Dry bags
Inner tubes
Tyre levers

I can think of something essential to our hobby, is weightless, doesn't cost a penny and very strong.

Its called common sense and knowledge.


Cons: Not very bloody common at all, infact its like rocking horse poo these days.....

I have an emergency whistle that weighs next to nothing, is basically indestructible, and I think I paid a quid for it.

I've got a long handled plastic spork I found in a bargain bin at a closing down Blacks store a few years ago. Cost 50p and is just the thing for eating boil in a bag meals. No you can't have it.

Tyres when run tubeless at the correct pressure ;-)

Valve caps.

Brake and gear inner cables.

V-brakes in the dry?

I think when something is strong, light and cheap, it makes everything else obsolete, so it's hard to think of it as the exception that proves the rule, it has now become the rule.
Not specific examples, but components in general, such as;
Handlebars
Hubs
Seat posts
Cranks
Rims
Pedals
are now so strong, light and cheap in aluminium, it's rare to see them in steel.
It will probably upset anyone who owns a custom built steel or titanium frame, but even the most horrible hard tail BSO has got a strong, light and cheap frame.

I'd like to also add that the words "strong", "light" and "cheap" are all relative terms and dependent on your persuasion.

VeganGraham wrote:I think when something is strong, light and cheap, it makes everything else obsolete, so it's hard to think of it as the exception that proves the rule, it has now become the rule.
Not specific examples, but components in general, such as;
Handlebars
Hubs
Seat posts
Cranks
Rims
Pedals
are now so strong, light and cheap in aluminium, it's rare to see them in steel.
It will probably upset anyone who owns a custom built steel or titanium frame, but even the most horrible hard tail BSO has got a strong, light and cheap frame.

Though a few of those components are also available in carbon fibre so lighter and stronger (possibly) but quite a bit more expensive. My handlebars are aluminium and weigh (according to the manufacturer) 370g and cost £30 but I could get a carbon riser bar from the same manufacturer for £115 which weighs just 210g. An upgrade cost of 50p/gramme!

Once you get away from the frame and the wheels then unless you are a weight weanie you aren't going to notice the difference when upgrading to a fractionally lighter component. The total weight of the bike is swamped by the weight of the rider so a bit of dieting would be vastly more cost efficient - though not as good in the bragging rights!

Zippy wrote:I'd like to also add that the words "strong", "light" and "cheap" are all relative terms and dependent on your persuasion.

Yep, they're moving goalposts.

The biggest example people give is more relative to hiking that bikepacking, and that's the CCF mat, I mean it is indeed all 3, strong light and cheap, but still not suitable

Many other factors come into it which is why certain things that fit, wont make the rest obsolete as they're not the ideal.

Back to the rollmatt, mine weighs 176g, and is the support for my backpack( which is far to tall to bike with a helmet on)
But id rather take extra weight to bring pack size down as we all know how bulky they are

Same goes for stoves, sometimes I choose something heavier,more expensive so I can cook more complex meals, and other times a pop stove is ideal

Its about the right tool for the job, and how much comfort you want (or willing to sacrifice) we all know there's more than 3 simple boxes to tick when looking at new gear, and what peoples definition of those 3 are, strong and light mean two different things on the tour divide compared to a S24O in wales

Zippy wrote:I'd like to also add that the words "strong", "light" and "cheap" are all relative terms and dependent on your persuasion.

None of the stuff on VeganGraham's list were cheap on my bike at all. I think I might be poor. :(

and that's the CCF mat, I mean it is indeed all 3, strong light and cheap, but still not suitable

I find mine entirely suitable?

Joshvegas wrote:

and that's the CCF mat, I mean it is indeed all 3, strong light and cheap, but still not suitable

I find mine entirely suitable?

Me too!
My current one weighs 40g, can be made to take up about as much room as a 1L waterbottle and keeps me insulated from the ground (enough). Yes its not comfortable, but it takes the edge off gravel and the like, and I'm young enough to be able to sleep on virtually any surface

Ben98 wrote: My current one weighs 40g, can be made to take up about as much room as a 1L waterbottle

What and how?
Mine was the size of a small child before cutting it down, even now it takes up a huge amount of space on my bars, hence finding it unsuitable despite its low weight

Ben98 wrote:

Joshvegas wrote:

and that's the CCF mat, I mean it is indeed all 3, strong light and cheap, but still not suitable

I find mine entirely suitable?

Me too!
My current one weighs 40g, can be made to take up about as much room as a 1L waterbottle and keeps me insulated from the ground (enough). Yes its not comfortable, but it takes the edge off gravel and the like, and I'm young enough to be able to sleep on virtually any surface

Which shows you're missing the point doesn't it? The saying is surely that for equivalent performance you can only pick two. In the case of your mat it's light and cheap. Replace strong with comfortable and compared to my neoair it's rubbish!

I think strong* is more relative actually.

Ccf on any surface still functions in its primary job of insulation.

Inflateable... comfy aslong as its not punctured at which point you also lose insulation.

Never had an issue moving obvious uncomfortable bumps before laying down good practice for any mat choice.

Mind you i rarely need a mat at all!

As for carrying it i just wrap it round whatever is on the bars and strap.

*taking this to mean bulletproof.

HaYWiRe wrote:

Ben98 wrote: My current one weighs 40g, can be made to take up about as much room as a 1L waterbottle

What and how?

Ahem



For me the point of a sleeping mat is insulation, not comfort (though I do have a downmat for comfort), and I can tell by laying on and next to it, its definitely warmer than the bare floor, so it serves its purpose beautifully!

But you've proved my point by having a downmat for comfort!

For the saying to be wrong you'd have to have two things of identical performance of which one was substantially cheaper than the other.