The New shand mtb looks nice .http://www.shandcycles.com/bikes/bahookie/

Surprised it's TIG welded??

And not 29er +, surely with sliding dropouts you could meet both options in one.

Doesn't mention actual tubeset either which a bit misleading, as I thought Columbus Niobium tubing is 'life' tubes which are cheaper than 853 and Columbus 'spirit' tubes.

Still looks nice but a bit pricey given the spec.

£1000 (inc delivery) is a bit steep for a steel hardtail (frame only) isn't it?

I think when you consider that you're pretty much getting a handmade, UK built custom frame, a grand doesn't actually seem bad ... have you seen the price of 2015 Surly and Salsa frames?

I think it's a really well thought out frame, looks great. Yeah, it's a grand, but you get what you pay for. People who buy cheap stuff, have to buy a lot of cheap stuff to replace the cheap stuff they bought before.

The frame is quite expensive, but i agree with Stu, its very unique and VERY beautiful!
When you think about it, the complete build kit isn't that badly priced for what your getting, only a little bit more than a similarly specked carbon thingy thats been mass produced in a factory by machines

That does look nice . Not sure on a couple of the details (e.g. rear dropout etc.), but even then I think they might grow on me.

polarcherry wrote:And not 29er +, surely with sliding dropouts you could meet both options in one.

It was never supposed to be a 29er+. That would be a different bike. And sticking sliding dropouts on it isn't going to solve that problem. There's a thread detailing a 29+ bike we've done recently here :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic ... st-6519258

polarcherry wrote: Doesn't mention actual tubeset either which a bit misleading, as I thought Columbus Niobium tubing is 'life' tubes which are cheaper than 853 and Columbus 'spirit' tubes.

It's not misleading at all as we doesn't use a 'tubeset'. We use individual, custom drawn tubes most of which are Niobium. Life and Spirit aren't materials, they're collections of tubes. Both of which are Niobium by the way. Saying our tubes are Niobium is the same as saying they're 853 or 631 etc. And these tubes are definitely not cheaper than 853!

Why the surprise that it's tig welded?

Like I say none is a negative, as its a lovely looking frame with some nice details, but the things that you've changed to presumely keep the costs down compared to your Stoater stand out to me, and makes it look expensive to some of the other other 'niche' UK frame builders. Your works great, I know I have some of your forks and they are vaguely exciting.

I was under the impression that Columbus 'life' was Niobium, which originally started life as 'SL' or 531 equiv or 'slx' which was spirally butted near the bottom bracket for strength and stiffness.

And 'spirit' was Nivacrom and that was their top non-stainless tubeset and the equiv to 853, but a lot say is better due to being lighter.

TIG? Just thought you liked fillet brazing.

Saw and posted on the thread of the 29er+ frane on stw, looks vaguely exciting but the 100mm bb looks wide. But I've never tried one so could be fine.

polarcherry wrote:Like I say none is a negative, as its a lovely looking frame with some nice details, but the things that you've changed to presumely keep the costs down compared to your Stoater stand out to me, and makes it look expensive to some of the other other 'niche' UK frame builders.

I like this kind of immediate feedback it's great. Not sure what features you can find on this frame that stand out as cutting costs though. It's actually a more expensive frame to produce than the Stoater so keen to see how that perception has come about. Might be something we need to address. Really not sure about price, what UK builders are offering something like this and are much cheaper?

polarcherry wrote: I was under the impression that Columbus 'life' was Niobium, which originally started life as 'SL' or 531 equiv or 'slx' which was spirally butted near the bottom bracket for strength and stiffness.

And 'spirit' was Nivacrom and that was their top non-stainless tubeset and the equiv to 853, but a lot say is better due to being lighter.

Both Life and Spirit are Niobium. Most Spirit tubes are triple butted now and are generally drawn with thinner wall which puts them in lighter weight category.

As a material, Nivacrom, Niobium, 853, 631, 531 are all the same weight and stiffness.

polarcherry wrote: TIG? Just thought you liked fillet brazing.

I do, but I also like TIG and I'm of the opinion that for this bike (and the Stoater) TIG is a better choice.

Do you know what the weight on the complete build and bare frame is? Obviously weight is less of an issue with this kind of bike, im just intrigued to know how it compares to what i know

I've seen one in the flesh (Glentress) and the welds and paint are stunning

Both Life and Spirit are Niobium. Most Spirit tubes are triple butted now and are generally drawn with thinner wall which puts them in lighter weight category.

Not sure if that's righht - steels contain alloying additions of niobium and vanadium ("Nivacrom") or just niobium ("Niobium").

They are different.

:bikpackingtraditionalist: But, but, but, but it's got a DROPPER post :/bikepackingtraditionalist:

I like it, looks very.

I think c£1k for steel frame is perceived as expensive because you can buy a Ti or carbon frame from on one, if you catch it right, for less than half that. That's not exactly #fair# but to lots of people a frame is a frame

If I had the spare cash I'd love to try a bahookie. Sadly its all tied up in a cheap Titus Fireline

Good luck with it and hope they sell well.

mountainbaker wrote:Yeah, it's a grand, but you get what you pay for. People who buy cheap stuff, have to buy a lot of cheap stuff to replace the cheap stuff they bought before.

I'm not saying this is expensive for what you get; however I doubt anyone is getting twice the life out of this, that I'll get out of my half the price P7 frame.

I agree that I think it's been well thought out though. I guess rigid fork option would be nice.

polarcherry wrote:

Both Life and Spirit are Niobium. Most Spirit tubes are triple butted now and are generally drawn with thinner wall which puts them in lighter weight category.

Not sure if that's righht - steels contain alloying additions of niobium and vanadium ("Nivacrom") or just niobium ("Niobium").

They are different.

I'm not sure where you get that information. Niobium laced steel alloys are know by Columbus as Niobium. The coldworking and final profiling is what determines the tubeset designation and as I said, both Spirit and Life are Niobium. Zona is Nivacrom and historically tubesets like Genius, Cyber and Neuron?? were also Nivacrom. Vanadium alloyed steel was different again and was known as something like Thermacro? My memory is a little fuzzy on that.

Ben98 wrote:Do you know what the weight on the complete build and bare frame is? Obviously weight is less of an issue with this kind of bike, im just intrigued to know how it compares to what i know

Don't have it to hand but will get it tomorrow and post back. From memory, frame was a little over 2kg I think.

I'm just curious, do you southerners know what "bahookie" means?

composite wrote: I'm not saying this is expensive for what you get; however I doubt anyone is getting twice the life out of this, that I'll get out of my half the price P7 frame.

I agree that I think it's been well thought out though. I guess rigid fork option would be nice.

Your P7 has been relegated to commute duties though. Well, probably not even that now :)

I'm guessing you could run a rigid fork on the bahookie, depends on geometry, but on my new frame, it will have a steeper head angle with the rigid fork, which is good, as that will be on it for the Divide, and the bike will be more heavily loaded, and a steeper head angle means less side flop, and slacker with the sus fork means better handling on technical stuff. The Bahookie only comes with a 100mm fork, which will be a lot easier to correct for in a rigid fork than the now trendy 120/140 forks...

RobMac wrote:I'm just curious, do you southerners know what "bahookie" means?

I looked it up last week. Interesting choice for a frame name

As nice as the fillet brazing is on my current Shand (and it is bordering on a work of art...), the quality of the TIG welding I saw on Shand frames in their workshop back in the summer was the best I've seen anywhere.

The versatility built into this frame sets it apart from most other offerings I reckon - geared, singlespeed, belt drive, IHG, rigid, suspension, dropper post (if you like that sort of thing).
Downtube cable routing is nice and smooth makes putting a frame bag on it a lot easier than having to work around cable stops on the top tube too.

Very much looking forward to getting on one of these for next year

Yeah, I think the key is in the versatility, lots of bikers like trying new gear out, and over years, ride different types of trails, trail centres, long distance stuff, bike-packing, gravel, etc. So will wanna be able to switch SS, Rohloff with belt, 1x10 3x9 whatever. Not many production frames (or companies) are willing to cater for all these options in one frame, as I think it means they can have more models and sell more, whereas this is a frame that would last. It's basically the frame I would design were I getting a frame made for me that should be capable of doing everything!

All the best with it, I think it's a winner.

Ian wrote:Downtube cable routing is nice and smooth makes putting a frame bag on it a lot easier than having to work around cable stops on the top tube too.

I was a little surprised that it does not come with brazeon's to bolt a frame bag on. I thought you had sorted that out on a prototype.

mountainbaker wrote:

composite wrote: I'm not saying this is expensive for what you get; however I doubt anyone is getting twice the life out of this, that I'll get out of my half the price P7 frame.

I agree that I think it's been well thought out though. I guess rigid fork option would be nice.

Your P7 has been relegated to commute duties though. Well, probably not even that now :)

Not for long, the fork goes back on this weekend and the rigid is going on the lurcher.

I like it. a lot. I dont think the price is prohibitive for a uk made high quality bit of kit like that.

If the weight is around the 2kg mark I'll even be looking at buying one. though I'm in between sizes so would have to be looking at the custom option to lengthen the TT

The only hang up I would have is the BB. I've had nowt but trouble with my current PF30 and would be interested in Stevens selection for the full bike.