For anyone considering the Ford fiesta who's not camped out in winter and has a limited selection of gear etc what do we think is the minimum for a survivable night

Plus any myog tips more than welcome please!

Half is gear the other half is picking a good spot.

It depends on what kind of winter we get, but the last couple of years its been below zero.

Its all about finding that extra degree from here and there.
If its cold stay out of the valleys as you'll probably have a temp inversion in those conditions and it will be warmer higher up.
See if you can find a space in a forest. The trees will trap in some of the heat and if the floors covered in pine needles that will give you extra insulation.
Do everything to keep your feet dry (although that may not be easy this year) as once they do get wet, you'll struggle to dry them out and get warm.

As for kit, think about layers.
Assuming you have a good 3 season sleeping bag, maybe look into a liner which will add a few degrees. (Cheap)
A separate (dry) set of sleeping clothes, woolly hat and socks (Cheap)
If you are biving, i find a buff over your mouth, stops you breathing in too much cold air, making you feel warmer (Cheap)
Get yourself down to the pound shop and pick up some kids wool gloves. Keeps your fingers a bit warmer when packing away cold stuff (Again cheap)

A tent will always add on a few degrees over a bivi, if you have the choice and are a bit marginal on your other kit.

If you do want to spend a few bob (or ask Santa nicely) I'd look to either a winter mat, as you'll loose more heat to the ground than to the air, and/or a jacket/vest to boost your bags rating - My Rab Primaloft is very handy for this and appears on all my trips now, and can be warn whilst riding if its really cold.

Other than that find a Bothy

Having been to the pub in Mach for a few pints, we slept in a small stand of trees just out of town. I was toasty warm under a tarp with my Lamina 20, neoair and down jacket. One of my companions spent a miserable, sleepless night freezing his arse off in a lesser bag, despite having a down jacket and decent mat.

what do we think is the minimum for a survivable night

I've slept in snow holes with a 1 season bag, bivy and a foam mat in the Alps in winter.

The important stuff, a stove, fuel, and plenty of food.

You can have a 5 season sleeping bag, but if you go to bed cold, tired and without hot stuff inside you, you'll have a sub standard nights sleep.

Brill advice, keep it coming please. I'd love a good bag but it won't happen by January unfortunately. I do have a down bag but it's a cheap one from a high street camping shop

If you've got a cheap highstreet down bag chances are it'll be better suited to the warmer months ... I'd suggest maybe buying a second cheap 1 season bag and using it as an inner / outer* for you existing one.

* if it's roomy use it as an outer, if it's snug put it inside.

Fleece bag liner combined with thermal socks, long johns and top work for me in winter to improve my bag rating, not too heavy but it is extra bulk. The fleece liner i bought was huge so i narrowed it and cut the length down so it comes up to my armpits. It's normally my lower body that feels the cold so I sometimes zip up my down jacket and put it in the bottom of my bivy bag then slide the feet end of my sleeping bag into it. I have heard that a hand warmer placed in the groin area over the femural artery works well too as it heats the blood going to your feet but I have not tried it. Think I might give it a go on the Christmas bivy.

Sleeping in down jackets is good "multi-use" so saves some weight too.

I swear by merino socks, long johns and base layer for sleeping. Multi-use too as can be your change of clothes etc if first days is soaked.

Get yourself warm before getting in your pit - physical jerks will do it. "Water Bottles" can be fashioned from anything suitably heat resistant and shoved in something so you don't get burnt e.g. a sock. Arm pits, groin etc are all good to get the source of warmth close to a major blood vessel.

Hats, especially bigger ones that can be pulled down over eyes, ears back of neck are good too.

I find if it's 'proper' cold, then a balaclava rather than a hat makes a real difference.

I also find that using a down jacket draped over you inside the sleeping bag rather than wearing it, is usually warmer.

Any thin foam mat (even under your inflatable mat) will add more insulation from the cold ground and keep you warmer... I use one half of a delaminated 4 season Karrimat in the winter trimmed a bit to save on weight/space (purple mat wrapped up on the bars here) with a Neoair on top.

Dec Bivvy - Stanage Pole by 99percentchimp, on Flickr

A candle
under a low hung bivi it adds warmth (a C), makes you feel better, light weight & cheap

(Not too close to the plastic stuff)

The art of staying warm - part 1.
http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co ... art-1.html

The art of staying warm - part 2.
http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co ... art-2.html

Thanks. This is very helpful because although I intend to practice a few more times it is unlikely that Leicester will get anything like as cold as Wales will be.

Last year Wenchie, Chew and myself came out of the pub at Tal y bont around 8.30pm to frozen bikes and icy roads. Within an hour my gears had frozen solid and the puddles on the mountains were sporting a good layer of ice.

It was a clear sky holding a nearly full moon, the ride up onto the tops around Nant y moch was one of the most memorable rides I've had ... truly stunning. The descent off the mountains early on Sun to get back so I could help with the tea and cake certainly woke me up ... but it is around 7 miles downhill.

Great! Now I'm starting to wonder just how many layers of thermals I can fit on at the same time and how many sleeping bags I can nest inside each other.

I still have painful memories of being frozen as a teenager in Edale at Easter when there with Venture Scouts. I suppose my body carries a lot more insulation now although I'm not sure how effective it is.

Cold is good

Wet is bad

Cold is good

Wet is bad

And wet and cold is really, really bad.

s8tannorm wrote: And wet and cold is really, really bad.

I agree with that.

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benp1 wrote:Cold is good

Wet is bad

Personally I disagree with that. Cold is bad, wet I'm indifferent to. If I'm warm but wet, I don't care. I'd rather be warm and wet than cold and dry.

Each to their own though.