CX Tubeless

[mountainbaker]

So I have some Conti CycloXKings on my bike now, and am waiting for a couple of rolls of gorilla tape and some stans goo. Hopefully it'll work well. I got a puncture on the first ride out with these tyres using tubes, a thorn, of course, it's that time of year.

Has anyone else setup up their CX tubeless? There's a very limited (and overpriced) selection of tubeless specific tyres.

[Bearbonesnorm]

My attempt resulted in the loss of hearing in one ear for 8 days and a near head to toe covering of purple glittery sealant ... I must have looked like a deaf glam rock fluffer

[mountainbaker]

Ouch, sounds amusing for everyone except you. Maybe that's tussock karma.

The bead seems a bit slack on the Xkings, not sure it's going to work. fingers crossed.

[Dyffers]

I've done it on Crests with 35mm Racing Ralphs, SB8s and even a 10 year old Specialized Houfalize (although that required a huge amount of sealant before the sidewalls stopped leaking).

Loose tyres might be a problem for burping but will almost certainly seal to begin with using a pop bottle accumulator.

Beware exceeding the 40psi max for tubeless, but unless you're doing very rocky tech stuff you should be fine.

[mountainbaker]

Cool, thanks Paul. I have an air compressor, that generally makes tubeless a lot less hassle.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Beware exceeding the 40psi max for tubeless,

Ah yes

Luckily I did this whilst seating the tyre without any sealant. Made me jump

I generally stick it round a corner and throw a sheet over it (if I can be bothered / remember) in case of mishaps. So far, no dramas. Cue a "badger"* moment




* you'd have to have been reading the STW forum years ago to get this reference. Very funny at the time though

[Zippy]

Had bonty ssr disc wheels (700c) and managed to just about get some schwalbe durano plus tyres (700c x 25c) seated tubeless, but had to top up with air every couple of days.... Then one day couldn't get them to ever seat again. I hears/read that high pressures is not recommended tubeless.

(It also exploded off the rim and covered me in goo when i went a bit high pumping...)

My bonty wheels gave up the ghost, so have some kinesis cxdisc wheels - I can't work out if they're tubeless or not, so was going to think about giving them another go. Thing is, the pressures required put me off a bit...

[mountainbaker]

I've got those wheels too Chris, I'll let you know how it goes. The tape and goo arrived in the post today, so I may have a go setting it up after work...

[mountainbaker]

OK, I have got them set up successfully. They are up at 60PSI now, just letting the bead lock well before I let a little out.

With the Kinesis CXDisc wheels, it was a bit of a ballache, the rim isn't tubeless ready (rim bed radius is too small and too big a gap between tape and tyre bead to inflate even with compressor). I ended up putting 3 loops of 16mm tape (some old stuff similar to duck tape) and a loop of 1" gorilla tape on the top, which is a tad too wide for the rim, but rather than trimming, I painstakingly tucked the edges under the bead hook of the rim all the way around using a tyre lever. Once I had done this, the tyres pumped up easily. The rear took me over 2 hours, the front, 20 minutes once I knew what to do. I've put two large scoops of stans in there as the CycloXKings seemed to leak a little through the sidewall.

Will test ride later.

[mountainbaker]

Oh, and thanks for the tip about hearing damage Stu. So I wore my chainsaw ear-defenders when inflating

[Zippy]

OK, I have got them set up successfully. They are up at 60PSI now, just letting the bead lock well before I let a little out.

With the Kinesis CXDisc wheels, it was a bit of a ballache, the rim isn't tubeless ready (rim bed radius is too small and too big a gap between tape and tyre bead to inflate even with compressor)

Interesting, I suspected that as I still have one of my old Bonty SSR disc wheels (failed through rims fracturing by nipple/rim interface, they didn't have any eyelets) which is tubeless compatible (TLR is the bonty thing), and I compared rim profiles, the bonty's certainly hook a lot more - and tyres used to pop into place even with tubes. Glad you've confirmed it though

Had bonty ssr disc wheels (700c) and managed to just about get some schwalbe durano plus tyres (700c x 25c) seated tubeless, but had to top up with air every couple of days.... Then one day couldn't get them to ever seat again.

I'd like to also point out with the above, that those tyres aren't tubeless tyres....

I've put two large scoops of stans in there as the CycloXKings seemed to leak a little through the sidewall.

What are your thoughts about home made sealant? I started researching this, but not got very far... there's a mahusive thread on it on mtbr.com when you search "open source sealant". I think Jameso mentioned something about this.
As my primary aim right now is to get to and from work without punctures, I filled some good quality conti tubes with stans...this was not successful the other day as it didn't seal a hole and I had sealant all round the inside of my tyre. I also had a stans booger forming, and it's only been a couple of weeks with that tube/filling with stans procedure. Then did a bit more reading/thinking and stans probably isn't brilliant in skinny little tubes. Might have to try slime... or putting some more big bits in with the stans - but if boogers form straight away, I'm buggered!

[mountainbaker]

I don't know anything about homebrewed sealant, something I suspect I'll be spending far too long reading about now

If you couldn't get the tyres to seat, you probably need to build up the rim diameter a bit more with some gorilla tape? Worth a try. I also want to run road tubeless on another wheelset at some point, I need to buy and build that wheelset though...

[Zippy]

Digging this thread up again as I know mountainbaker has some cxdisc wheels and I found this out:

http://whosatthewheel.com/2014/12/27/ki ... -any-good/

Kinesis Crosslight Disc wheels, any good?

Until Mavic came out with their overpriced Ksyrium disc wheelset, the Kinesis CX were pretty much the only light disc specific wheelset available on the market that would take road and cross tyres. I believe they will still enjoy plenty of popularity, as they come at less than half the price of the Mavic and offer a similar package. If you then compare them with what you would get for the same money in the bespoke handbuild market, they still retain a small edge. So, are they still the best bang for buck?

Kinesis is what I call a sticker maker, meaning unlike Mavic or Shimano they don’t do their own R&D, they don’t do any manufacturing and I am confident they even outsource the printing of their stickers and of course, as you might expect, this review will be somewhat short of adjectives like stiff, bombproof, cool, stealth and smooth. I have no reason not to believe they are performing wheels, as they are not dissimilar to what I have built for myself and ride every single day, except these are lighter than mine, significantly.

Taking advantage of a rear wheel that I was asked to rebuild, I managed to have a close look at the individual components: these are wheels assembled in Taiwan (says on the box) on far eastern hubs. I have not been able to identify the hubs make, they seem to run on a Chosen freehub, but other than that they could be anything. They seem of a similar quality to the excellent Novatec 711/712 and they copy the flange geometry of those, so all good there.

The rims are 24 mm wide and 18 mm internally, same as a Pacenti SL 23, but they are nowhere near as well finished. The holes are drilled but not cleaned, which in turn could result in premature fatigue cracks. However, the nipple bed seems thick enough to tolerate high building tension. The rim is also heavier than a Pacenti and even heavier than an Archetype or a Velocity Aileron, as on my scale it comes at 510 grams, which is still not bad for a rim of that size. It is tubeless ready, which is good news for cyclocross and road use alike. After my recent review of the Schwalbe One Tubeless I have completeld my conversion and no longer see the point of a tyre + inner tube combo… it just seems such an obsolete technology.

At Kinesis they use Pillar triple butted spokes, combined with anodised aluminium alloy nipples to cut the weight of the set under the crucial 1600 grams. It is a choice that sells well clearly, but it backfires, as these spokes are not as durable as Sapim Race or DT Competition, which is the very reason of this rebuild. Predictably, all the nipples on the drive side and a few on the non drive side were seized, which means it would have been impossible to “true the wheel” had it been necessary. This tedious issue doesn’t seem to be of any interest for the industry… it is dead simple: 1555 grams sell better than 1600.

In conclusion, my verdict is that these are good wheels, assembled with decent quality components and a modern wide and tubeless ready rim, but once you scratch the surface you realise the components are not chosen to last and whilst the price is attractive, if you are looking for a high mileage set, you might still be better off going bespoke with better quality spokes.

I've since also found my nipples seized - oooh er missus, so just be aware. A couple of the nipples have sheared as I tried to tighten/loosen them and there is corrosion galore. Have got some ACF50 down there pronto to hold things off a bit until I whack some brass spokes in there.

I did successfully quite easily swap the front rim though with original spoke and nipples

[jay91]

I've got stans iron cross rims andSchwalbe CX Comp tyers they have being faultless had them on about month

[mountainbaker]

Funny you should dig this up Zippy,

I was riding home the other night, got out of the saddle on a pretty shallow, but fast climb, and something made a loud bang in the front. A nipple snapped in the front wheel. Stupid aluminium crap. I replaced, and it's fine now, but it was a nightmare getting the remainder of the broken one off, it was almost fused on! I know the wheels have done > 6000miles, but still.

[Zippy]

I know the wheels have done > 6000miles, but still.

Corrosion (alloy on steel = bi metallic/galvanic corrosion in itself, but add in any road salt + moisture to make it worse) is more a function of time rather than mileage - well time with grim still on it.

Previous wheels were bonty ssr discs - the rim started fracturing on those

[cycleofaddiction]

I've got a Stans Alpha 340/Goldtec Track hub set for my sscx with Schwalbe rocket rons tlr which were a nightmare to set up but eventually got them up but when ridden hard would lose air which I guess they must of been burping, but since building the rim bed up with more tape they have been a lot better. Also I ghettoed a set of on one track wheels for the missus sscx with a set of used none tlr rocket rons and had no issues whatsoever ??

[mountainbaker]

Corrosion (alloy on steel = bi metallic/galvanic corrosion in itself, but add in any road salt + moisture to make it worse) is more a function of time rather than mileage - well time with grim still on it.

Previous wheels were bonty ssr discs - the rim started fracturing on those

Yeah, they are almost bang on 2 years old, I wouldn't expect them to start exploding when I'm riding up a gentle gradient. However, they are stock wheels on a relatively cheap complete bike, I've replaced the main bearings in the rear wheel, after about 4k miles, that's all I've had to do up until now, so they have proven to be good value for money. Not sure what to build next, probably some hopes with deep section chinese carbon rims, for road tyres, and re-lace the Kinesis with brass nipples as CX tubeless wheels.