Down Sleeping bags

[eightball]

Hi

I am trying to put together some kit for bike packing in the Cairngorms. I have ordered a Rab down jacket and wanted opinions on what sleeping bag to get. The intended use is spring summer autumn in the Cairngorms, so colder than elsewhere in the uk, with a bivvi bag and tarp. My intention was to wear the down jacket also in the hope to drop a season. I am also 6'3" so I will need a bag that comes in a long size. Can anyone make a recommendation?

Ian

[Bearbonesnorm]

Would this be any use? http://www.rockrun.com/rab-neutrino-endurance-600-2013/

The length's given as 220cm, so 7'2". Certainly looks like it'll do the job with regard to rating and the price is very good too.

[eightball]

Yeah that looks good thanks!

So I'm guessing that you recon that's suitable?

[Bearbonesnorm]

So I'm guessing that you recon that's suitable?

Much will depend on whether you 'sleep hot or cold', what type of mat you're using plus other bits like whether you're well fueled, etc. The bag contains 600g of quality down, using something of similar spec' I've been fine down to below -5 with no tent or tarp only a bivvy bag.

There's a few here that use 400g fill bags quite happily below freezing ... 200g doesn't sound like much but many summer bags only contain that much and some even less..

[deejayen]

It's a nightmare trying to pick a bag without some previous experience.

It might be worth having a look at the PHD website, then phoning them for a chat. Their bags are popular with the mountain racers, as their lighter bags use top quality down and light materials etc. Some racers are able to use a really light bag by combining it with some down clothing etc. They're generally expensive, though.

I seem to be a cold sleeper, but would love to be able to survive in a light bag! My first bag was a MacPac which had no down on the bottom (just a sleeve for a sleepng pad), although it was rated a winter bag. Every time I've used it in the outdoors I've spent a miserable night, including one memorable May night at Newtonmore when I assumed it was going to be warm, but there was a ground frost! I find this '4 season' bag is okay when used indoors with the heating on!

After that, I bought a PHD 'expedition' bag (900g) which was rated down to about -32. I find that comfortable, although I've not used it in the depths of winter! The big disadvantage is its bulk and weight - it's certainly not bike-packable. I need to get something else, but have been reluctant to spend on something which might not ideal - it's an expensive purchase to get wrong. I think I spoke to Pete at PHD last time, and he said I'd probably need to add 10 or 15 degrees to a bag's rated value. I think he suggested one of the Hispar models for 3 season use for me, but can't remember the model (possibly a 400 or 500). Either way it's still pretty bulky when what I really want is a sleeping bag the size of a 500ml water bottle, and which keeps me warm down to freezing!

Anyway, I thought I'd post this as a slight warning that temperature ratings aren't spot-on for everyone. The Rab bag would probably fine for a 'normal' sleeper, and seems a great buy. However, if you are 'normal' you could probably get away with a lighter bag (maybe more expensive) and your down clothing for the colder nights.

[Chew]

Firstly try and work out how warm a sleeper are you.

Often sleep with the windows open? Warm sleeper. Winter Duvet in the middle of summer? Cold sleeper. Also the older you get the colder you sleep.

If in doubt, get a warmer rated bag than you think you'll need. Always better to be a bit too hot and have to stick an arm out to cool down, rather than be cold all night (its not much fun).

Also look into getting a warm rated mat as that'll boost your bags rating.

[Cheeky Monkey]

PHD 'expedition' bag (900g) which was rated down to about -32. I find that comfortable, although I've not used it in the depths of winter

Wow, that re-defines "cold sleeper"

[Bearbonesnorm]

Anyway, I thought I'd post this as a slight warning that temperature ratings aren't spot-on for everyone.

'Tis so very true ... I ignore temp ratings in general and work out from experience whether a bag which contains X amount of a certain quality of down, manufactured in a certain way, will keep me warm at whatever temp I intend using it. I understand that without previous experience this is impossible to do.

The one thing that bugs me about phd is the fact they don't state how much down their bags actually contain ... they state the fill power but never the quantity

[Chew]

Also, I'd say a sleeping bag is the one area where you should look to spend the money. Scrimp on everything else, but not on your sleeping bag.

[AlasdairMc]

If in doubt, get a warmer rated bag than you think you'll need. Always better to be a bit too hot and have to stick an arm out to cool down, rather than be cold all night (its not much fun).

I'd personally go the other way around, especially with a down bag. If you're in a bivi bag in summer with midges around, there really is no way to cool down without being shredded. Also having too warm a bag means you sweat more and put more moisture through your bag which condenses on the inside of the bivi. By having a slightly colder bag you can then layer up with the down jacket if required, or stay cool without the jacket.

[Bearbonesnorm]

I'd personally go the other way around, especially with a down bag. If you're in a bivi bag in summer with midges around, there really is no way to cool down without being shredded.

I think much depends on the type of bivvy bag you're using. Something like a Borah has enough room for you to unzip the sleeping bag, pop your arms out or whatever without unzipping the bivvy bag.

Also having too warm a bag means you sweat more and put more moisture through your bag which condenses on the inside of the bivi.

I think the key here is trying not to sweat while being as warm as possible ... many bivvy bags breath better the greater the temp' difference between inside and out.

[psling]

Also consider a sleeping bag liner which, depending on material, can add warmth with the added bonus of keeping the inside of your bag cleaner. I'm quite, ahem, chunky so putting on bulky extra layers inside the bag can be counter-productive as everything compresses so for me it's thermal base layers plus a polyester liner on colder nights, lighter bag and silk liner on balmy nights.

[mtbmarkymark]

In view of the Ian's need for wide temperature range can i suggest a 2 bag system, in particular the PHD combi idea, which has a summer bag at it's heart and a then you add a second bag around it for colder weather use. This has the advantage of being able to regulate the temperature easily if it is warmer than expected.

Secondly for Ian i think having a sleeping mat with a high R value would be of benefit. I use a Thermarest Neoair in the summer but as soon at it's getting down to freezing i switch to their Xtherm model. I found that for me the change of sleeping mat alone made about 5 degrees difference to the bags rating.

@S*tannorm. I know what you mean about PHD not making it obvious how much down is in the very lightweight bags. I found out how to work it out however. Just put play about in the "design your own bag" section and you can get a very good idea by simply matching the temperature rating. e.g minimus +5deg rated. Put +6deg rating in design your own = 200g. +3deg = 250g so i'm guessing it has about 216g.

[eightball]

Thanks for the responses guys. Right, I think what I will do is use my heavy 4 season synthetic sleeping bag first to try and get a feel for how much colder bivvying is than a tent.

Out of interest does anyone on here go into the Cairngorms? Can you recommend any routes, particularly 1 nighters to get started with?

[Gari]

Sure, will you be driving or coming on the train, what sort of daily distances are you looking for?

[eightball]

I normally drive over the Lecht to get out your way. I guess 1000m assent and maybe 20 odd miles a day? Nothing too crazy as I'm just wanting to get started.