I've been reading with great interest the ongoing conversation over in the Training thread but am woefully ignorant of pretty much all of what's being said to the extent that I can't make any (practical) sense of it.

Some of that is down to vocabulary and some to experience (I've simply never had anything to do with heart rate monitors etc...) but I am genuinely interested in getting more out of my riding so I thought I'd start a low-brow sister thread that will (hopefully - with a little helpful input from others) provide useful information for us mere mortals.

Firstly, does anyone fancy helping out with a glossary of some of the more popular terms, phrases, ideas and techniques used when talking training (as in the other thread) as that alone would help demystify the whole issue (I have googled various specific bits I wanted to understand but it's very time consuming and pretty confusing as there's so much, often conflicting, information out there)?

Secondly, if others are interested in learning more about getting the most (performance-wise) out of their time on two wheels then why not post any questions or problems here and maybe someone more knowledgeable will be along to offer enlightenment in easy-to-understand form.

Thirdly, I'll outline where I'm at personally and if anyone fancies offering up their opinion and what I should do next then any/all assistance would be greatly appreciated.

I'll post my specific questions in a separate post and look forward to seeing if this thread goes anywhere (as, like I said, this is an area I'm really interested in but don't have masses of time to dedicate to).

Cheers all, Gairy.

Ok, here's where I'm at:

- I like riding bikes - a lot (MTB, road, fat, SS, geared, rigid, HT, full-sus and even touring)!
- I'd very much like to not always be the slowest person on every ride (currently 99% of the time).
- I'm in (semi) decent condition and can put in some long(ish) days on a bike without suffering too much (though I am too fond of the pies and so am weightier than I should be).
- I've got two kids and so very little time for long (3+ hours) rides more than once every week or two (most of my riding is 1-2 hours and that's possible 2-3 times a week).
- I'm also doing a tiny bit of running (around 6km whenever I get the chance) and some other light physical activities (occasional snowboarding, learning to ski, some tentative attempts at skinning uphill on skis and general hiking in the mountains).
- I've got an ongoing back problem (herniated L3 which is in recovery and I'm currently doing loads of physio and core work to keep it under control).

Here are the areas I'd like to improve:

- Be less of a bloater (ok, this one is fairly easy and my job to sort out so no help needed here).
- General riding speed (I saunter and don't seem to have another speed).
- My climbing - I am a very poor climber (though I can climb miserably slowly all day and often have to at the speed I ride!).
- I want to not only make it to the BB200 this year but would very much like to finish it under (ok, somewhere near) 24 hours.

And here's what I'm currently doing (or planning to do) about it:

- I'm loosely following Paleo-esque eating plan (but need to stick to it more and not top it up with obscene amounts of chocolate) which, when I do it right, leads to me loosing weight fast (as I've got it to lose) and feeling great.
- I am riding my fatbike (currently the only bike option available to me with so much snow around) whenever I get the chance to keep the legs in as good a shape as possible over the winter but the speed is slow as hell (though it's hard going and requires some grunt).
- I plan on trying to do some 'interval training' and by that I mean short bursts of flat-out (on a 5% gradient road climb) which I'm hoping (from what I've read) will help increase my ability to ride at a higher pace in general.
- Once the snow buggers off I'll be back on the road bike (currently no space for a turbo) and putting in some (semi) decent miles (and hilly ones at that!) but that could be 3 months away!

So.....

What do people suggest I do next/instead (other than lay off the pies)?

I've got access to stats re: my rides (via gps recording of every ride and Strava to analyse progress) but no heart rate monitor (though I'd be interested in investing in one if it didn't cost the earth).

As always I'm massively grateful for any/all help, advice and information that people throw my way (as you lot know ridiculous amounts, bordering on too much, about this stuff).

Cheers, Gairy.

Hi Gairy, this is all just from what I've read over the last 18 months (so please anyone correct me if wrong) but I agree, it's a techy subject popular with over-achieving triathlete types who love gadgets and analysis of data.. ie it's not for me! I do like to feel good on the bike though so I think getting the basics right is worth it and I'm with you on all this. I've heard it's tougher for a fit rider to make small gains, but for most of us who don't 'train' formally as such the general truths can get us to say 85% of our potential without taking over our lives or removing the fun from riding and that's good enough for many.

In no real order of anything,

20mp (20 mins power), LT (lactate threshold), LTHR (LT heart rate) and FTP (functional threshold power) are all effectively the same thing, or referring to the same area, the power or rate that you can work at for 20mins. Joe Friel's blog and a few posts like this
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/02/pea ... ext-level/
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/12/07/pea ... power-ftp/
helped me understand some basics there. The idea being that the result of a threshold test (hard work but worth a try if you can get on a turbo with a heart monitor on) gives a good indicator of your racing performance at that time. Or, you train at this level so that all your zones or levels are raised relation to the gain in power at LTHR, ie for a given power output you're cruising more and cracking less.

http://www.biketechreview.com/performan ... definition
A good link from STW recently, about base training and FTP. Remembering that most of this stuff is for roadies, I think base miles are still much more a part of long-distance rider's preparation - mentally as much as physically.

Heart rate zones seem to be a fairly old way of training and Joe Friel's blog ( a mine of info) talks about training at levels that are based on % of FTP. If you don't use a heart rate monitor than all that's irrelevant really, understanding the basis of the ideas helps me get a bit more out of a fun ride though. Knowing not to push hard on every ride, needing recovery or easy rides for loosening up, etc.

zigrat's point about metabolism in the other thread is really important too I think, better to get your body used to using fuel efficiently first, you may well be pretty good there already, riders seem to vary naturally. i wasn't a few years ago so fasted rides for efficiency and weight loss are something I found very effective in the mid to long term, ie just going out for an hour or so in the morning on black coffee only, eat when you get back in, 2-4x a week if poss.

And the other basic idea that a friend who's trained for an Ironman (coached by Matt Hart, who Ian mentioned having as a coach) told me about was about the idea of base and build, Joe Friel's take on training. You work on the base / efficiency / low-level stuff, then work on the more intermediate levels, then the HI High Intensity stuff to tune it all up, working in cycles ie, you can't tune an inefficient engine. Seems to make sense and tie in all the other aspects.

Hope that's of some use, or at least makes sense to explain the basics that I've used.

To put it simply to get better you must stretch yourself, just going out and getting the miles in will just allow you to ride for miles, you wont necessarily get better.
It's natural for us to look for the easy way out, that's human nature, to stretch yourself try some of these.

1. The best gains I have seen from people is when they ride with fitter people in a group, if you can join in with a regular club or group ride, you'll be pushed beyond your limits like you can never really achieve on your own.

2. Make it harder for yourself, we all avoid the hard stuff be it steep hills, riding into headwinds, deep mud etc. Go out on specific rides were you face your demons, in a word suffer ;-)

3. Many riders seem to spend all winter riding on lightweight road bikes to train. I can never understand that. Are you making it easier for yourself just so the numbers look good on Strava. get out there on a heavy bike with draggy tyres, load up your bikepacking bags with dead weight. Come summer you'll be flying. Personally I rarely ride on road tyres. I go out with the roadies on a flat barred cyclo-x tyred bike. It bloody kills me just keeping up, but I achive all of 1,2 and 3 and it I get great personal achievement on a good day. yes some days I end up getting dropped

4. If you do the Turbo thing then getting a few of the http://www.thesufferfest.com/ videos to spur you into pushing yourself will work.

Don't make the classic beginners mistake and forget that rest and recovery is your friend. that's proper rest. I'd recommend riding at least every other day if you can, and after 3 (or 2 if over 40) weeks have a rest week.

Hope this helps.

As an alternative on the turbo I know a few people who love http://www.trainerroad.com/ yes it costs you money and you need to buy an ANT+ dongle to talk to your Garmin devices but it can give you repeatable "simulated power" readings so you can really gauge your outputs.

numplumz wrote: As an alternative on the turbo I know a few people who love http://www.trainerroad.com/ yes it costs you money and you need to buy an ANT+ dongle to talk to your Garmin devices but it can give you repeatable "simulated power" readings so you can really gauge your outputs.

I almost wish I already used a turbo, as this looks pretty interesting. Considering Strava premium is $6 a month, $10 a month seems quite reasonable.

I've made Turbo sessions more effective (and bearable) by:

1. Moving into the conservatory-if it's convenient then I'm more likely to do it
2. Getting a Bluetooth HRM & Cadence sensor and using with my iPhone- much easier to see whats happening on the phone in a dock in front of me than looking at a watch/handlebar computer
3. Netflix subscription-not sure I'd be motivated to watch real cyclists I'm not really riding with and if I'm hooked on a series I'll get on the turbo to watch it!

I've been commuting in since January. Part of me is happy I'm getting the miles in but I realise it isn't as focussed as a turbo session. Then again my 8 week old daughter doesn't always make a ride/turbo session practical so something is better than nothing???

Gairy,

If you have a goal of finishing the BB200 in under 24 hours, its best to concentrate on what you'll need to do to be able to achieve that.

In many ways it may be best to forget about all of the technical stuff and just get out and ride your bike and enjoy it.

The more you enjoy it the more motivated you'll be get out more often, you'll naturally get fitter, more motivated and hopefully you'll get into a positive cycle. For the 'average' person this is how you'll get to your 80% level and the technical stuff is about how you get above that.

Like others have said you'll get fitter by pushing yourself a bit more. Getting out of breath, pushing on when your legs are burning or you're knackered but its still 20 miles to get home. Ride with people who are faster than you, dont always drop into the lowest gear for any climb and if something hurts you'll be faster next time.

Mix it up and enjoy getting out there. The last thing you want to do is 'train' all year for an event and get fed up of riding your bike before the event arrives.

Hope you don't mind me hi-jacking the thread a bit Gairy...

I'm not the fittest of people either and although I now accept that I'll never be a racing whippet I would like to also stop being "a last man in the group" (I nearly bailed on the Xmas bivi after about 1/2 an hour because I was finding it tough).

Apart from a short spell just before xmas I've pretty much been off the bike since June due to an accident, I'm now back commuting by bike and hope to gain some fitness but that is the problem after my 5.5 mile commute (about 25 minutes) I'm feeling too knackered when I get home to jump on the TT and do a Sufferest etc. but I don't really feel the benefit of the commute will drastically change anything.

Having a young family means I don't get out as often at a weekend either.

Any tips on what I could possibly do?

cheers

barney wrote:Apart from a short spell just before xmas I've pretty much been off the bike since June due to an accident, I'm now back commuting by bike and hope to gain some fitness but that is the problem after my 5.5 mile commute (about 25 minutes) I'm feeling too knackered when I get home to jump on the TT and do a Sufferest etc. but I don't really feel the benefit of the commute will drastically change anything

Extend your commute home to up the mileage?
Not commuting everyday to give you time to rest and recover?
Sprinting up short hills rather than spinning up?
Changing your diet slightly to improve energy levels?

Think of small things you can change and add them one at a time. Eventually they'll build up into something bigger.

Barney, not at all. That was the hope for this thread - go for it!

All, thanks for the info/advice so far. Am just digesting and doing some additional research but am keen to reply (and ask more questions) as soon as I've worked through all of the above.

Cheers, Gairy.

Ok, I've been annoying Mrs Gairy over the last 48 hours by mainly spending my free time reading up on all things 'training' - I definitely don't have enough time to get into this as much as I might otherwise have done.

So.....

Jameso,

Thanks for all of that info - very useful!

There's still a fair bit of assumed knowledge in those articles but I had just about enough prior understanding to wade through and now definitely have more of a grounding and at least semi-understand what exactly it is that I don't understand

Numplumz,

To put it simply to get better you must stretch yourself, just going out and getting the miles in will just allow you to ride for miles, you wont necessarily get better.

That makes sense!

It also explains why I don't improve. I always ride at my pace which is great as I'm always able to keep up with myself but I can see why improvement would be slow/non-existent.

1. The best gains I have seen from people is when they ride with fitter people in a group, if you can join in with a regular club or group ride, you'll be pushed beyond your limits like you can never really achieve on your own.

2. Make it harder for yourself, we all avoid the hard stuff be it steep hills, riding into headwinds, deep mud etc. Go out on specific rides were you face your demons, in a word suffer ;-)

The riding with faster people thing will sort itself out come spring when the roadies come out of hibernation but until then it's just me and some harsh winter weather.

I never shy away from nasty climbs, evil weather or bad conditions but I never push my pace and so simply meander up and through those challenging parts of the rides I do.

Re: turbo trainer - I have one but it's at the old house (5 hours away) and there's not really enough room in our new flat for me to have it set-up permanently (and so keeping it elsewhere and having to bring it in and set it up every time I want to use simply won't happen). I've also been told that using a carbon frame on a TT is a bad idea because of the stresses it puts on the frame in ways it wasn't designed to take???

In short, you're absolutely right in that I need to quit riding within my comfort zone and start pushing myself to go faster for longer and keep on pushing when it starts hurting - good advice.

Chew,

In many ways it may be best to forget about all of the technical stuff and just get out and ride your bike and enjoy it.

The more you enjoy it the more motivated you'll be get out more often, you'll naturally get fitter, more motivated and hopefully you'll get into a positive cycle. For the 'average' person this is how you'll get to your 80% level and the technical stuff is about how you get above that.

I hope that this isn't true for me as if I'm already at 80% of my potential then I must be one athletically useless human!

I do get out and do love it and am very motivated to get out more but I just don't seem to be able to muster the energy to go out and 'train'.

I suppose nothing will change until my motivation to train outweighs my lazy desire to just enjoy the slow-paced jaunts that I normally do.

This, I suppose, is what all of this is about as I'm no longer satisfied (or at least not in the same way I used to be) with simply tootling along whistling and looking at the scenery - I want a little more from (and for) myself.

I doubt that I've already achieved my 80% level as when I was young I was very athletic and pretty competitive and so I know that I can (or could) perform to a decent standard and so I'm convinced that there's quite a lot more in the tank if only I could tease it out of myself.

Like others have said you'll get fitter by pushing yourself a bit more. Getting out of breath, pushing on when your legs are burning or you're knackered but its still 20 miles to get home. Ride with people who are faster than you, dont always drop into the lowest gear for any climb and if something hurts you'll be faster next time.

That's exactly what I need to do (and started yesterday on a little fatbike ride).

Cheers for the help.

All,

I've been doing some thinking about how to proceed and I've invested in a little (semi-cheap) HR monitor. This should enable me to physically see how hard I'm working at any one time and to have a definitive goal (e.g. hit zone 2 or 3 for X number of minutes etc...).

Until this arrives I plan to push that little bit more during my rides as this alone should make a difference - no?

Thanks all for your input as I already feel a little more focused and knowledgeable about what I need to do to see some improvements.

Barney,

Good luck with your own quest!

Cheers all, Gairy.

If time was short or the weather doing its best to remove motivation, I used to use one of the hills in the forest for intervals. I recall on a SS it was roughly a minutes worth of climbing if you went for it.

Climb it as fast as possibly - turn round and coast back down - climb it as fast as possible - turn round and coast back down - repeat 5 times.

Worked wonders* although did make you feel quite sick by the fifth go

*no hard facts just perception and a stopwatch.

In my MTB racing days I did try training but never could get the motivation to do it properly. The best method I found for me was that on the days I felt good then i'd push it really hard, on my off days i'd just relax and take it easy. I also found that if I rested for four to five days before an event then on the day I would feel really good and be able to go for it. I did buy a turbo trainer once but didn't keep it long, no pretty scenery sliding by.
Something called fartlek ( no tittering at the back there, it translates as speedplay) is easily built into a normal ride. Short bursts of high intensity activity followed by rest periods. Mix up the types of activity to keep it interesting and gain maximum results. Check the net for cycle specific fartlek ideas such as Stu's post above.

s8tannorm wrote:
Worked wonders* although did make you feel quite sick by the fifth go

When doing max intervals, if you don't feel sick at the end you're doing it wrong.

I have found personally that this type of interval is definitely best on the bike as Stu suggests. Essentially Max effort, getting up there as fast as you can each time.
Slightly more controlled style like specific heart rate zones I find much easier on a static bike. I find it hard to do the MAX on the static for some reason.

If you don't have a HRM (heart rate monitor) then you can use a perceived effort scale 1-10. 1 being very easy spin, just barely turning the peddles - 10 being about to keel over absolute max effort. The suffer fest videos use this 1-10 scale to suggest how hard you be working at different times.