• Has bike packing (off the beaten track ) gone full circle?

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:07 pm**

Little panniers and racks( preferably with a sheet metal platform) are becoming flavor of the month. 20 odd years ago all we seen were Bob yaks and panniers on the Great Divide. Going to fit Elkhorn racks and ortieb gravel panniers and ditch anything with Velcro and temperamental straps.
Done Kashmir and Ladak and a couple of trips to SW Bolivia, NW Argentina and Northern Chile late ninties and early 2thousands. Always good to have spare capacity for food and especially water in the drier regions.
Almost the same for bikes, 26 Wheels with 1.75 tyres and non suspension forks .Not much different today ( we win today as gear is less likely to let us down) if on a chunkier gravel bike with 700 wheels.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:31 pm**

"touring"

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:32 pm**

dont know much about any of that stuff, but what i do know is good stuff work.
on my very first ever bike tour with ctc back in 1981 i was on a bike with 27'' wheels, with a metal pannier rack, and some karrimor pannier bags given to me by a mates dad. all this stuff worked.
i am going on a month tour soon, using 700c wheels, a metal pannier rack, and some cheap waterproof pannier bags, which will all work fine.

soft luggage strapped onto a bike and onto bars, is ok for a couple of days, but in my humble opinion, is not good longterm. friction holes where stuff rubs, snapped straps, stuff squashed into small bags.
it may be fashionable but longterm i think racks and panniers will always be a better option.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:56 pm**

My 1st week long tour in 1986 aged 14 with a mate was on a handbuilt steel road bike with 14 speed downtube shifters, a couple of pages torn out of an old road atlas, a cheap steel rack and even cheaper nylon panniers. Everything worked, nothing broke and I survived! Happy days

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:44 pm**

HUX wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:56 pm My 1st week long tour in 1986 aged 14 with a mate was on a handbuilt steel road bike with 14 speed downtube shifters, a couple of pages torn out of an old road atlas, a cheap steel rack and even cheaper nylon panniers. Everything worked, nothing broke and I survived! Happy days

14 speed! You lucky lucky bstrd. I had 3 speed sturmey archer a rucksack and a bit of paper with my Dads instructions to my aunts house

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 10:18 pm**

did someone say 3 speed?

: me with bike 1980.png (558.68 KiB) Viewed 7455 times

Posted: **Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:08 am**

Bike packing has focused on the ultra version ,race or away for a week or two. Not much sleeping and just enough gear to survive, will be interesting to see what's happening in Kyrgyzstan. Looking at the riders gear you have minimalist and right thro to the lets carry some extra just in case the weather goes downhill. Seeing the bike setups it will be interesting to find out how each one finished up, the weather might be a deciding factor.
Should do a review of the mid and rear end of the riders and see how they managed. All the finishing riders in the first 20 or so would be super fit.

Posted: **Tue Aug 27, 2024 10:26 am**

It's interesting to me how many of the 'Rigs of the SRMR' or similar events look like relatively heavy touring set ups and how many of the riders are talking about riding not racing. It's been that way for a long time, I think you can go back 10 years or more and find half the field of the Tour Divide talking about the ride and experience over racing.

As always a male-dominated industry gets focussed on who's fastest and the reduction to objective numbers yet the majority of us aren't competitive enough to care that much, we're more interested in the challenge. And many of us, certainly in my case, find we're engrossed in the potential depth of that experience so racing just doesn't really fit with that. The challenge and the exertion of racing can create the experience for sure, but we can do that any time, no-one stops us from touring as if we were racing. Riding outside of trackers and numbered caps makes it a free-er and more complete experience imho. Touring is the basic experience that it all stems from, the rest is just what you make of it and why.

I started out loving the freedom of road touring and that's the part that stayed with me. I dabbled with racing but wasn't really inspired to compete further in that way - the route, the freedom and 'the show' always meant a lot more. I'll tour on and off-road these days and I do like to travel light and far, the minimalism is part of the appeal of lightweight touring and exploring and a lighter bike overall is nicer to ride.

Posted: **Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:06 pm**

I believe the term “rack packing” is en vogue. Sounds sexier than touring.

Posted: **Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:25 pm**

PaulB2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:06 pm I believe the term “rack packing” is en vogue.

Was same in the 1950s. Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Dean Martin and that lot were heavily into it.

Sounds sexier than touring.

Yep, to be honest I've always seen us as tarp campin' cycle trampin' pedal stompin' tussock yompin' country crossin' random dossin' ultra lightin' day and nightin' filthy stinkin' puddle drinkin' ditch sleepin' fart sackin' bikepackin' sex symbols.

In fact only the other night I was in the Black Lion with my BBB jersey on and sandals and waterproof socks and all the rest of the clobber, and this scantily clad young lady came up and winked at me

. Decorum precludes me from relating what happened next.

Posted: **Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:54 pm**

Presumably she poured you another pint?

Posted: **Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:56 pm**

Blast, you've rumbled me

.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:21 am**

RIP wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:25 pm In fact only the other night I was in the Black Lion with my BBB jersey on and sandals and waterproof socks and all the rest of the clobber, and this scantily clad young lady came up and winked at me . Decorum precludes me from relating what happened next.

You woke up

.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:34 am**

jameso wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 10:26 am It's interesting to me how many of the 'Rigs of the SRMR' or similar events look like relatively heavy touring set ups and how many of the riders are talking about riding not racing. It's been that way for a long time, I think you can go back 10 years or more and find half the field of the Tour Divide talking about the ride and experience over racing.

As always a male-dominated industry gets focussed on who's fastest and the reduction to objective numbers yet the majority of us aren't competitive enough to care that much, we're more interested in the challenge. And many of us, certainly in my case, find we're engrossed in the potential depth of that experience so racing just doesn't really fit with that. The challenge and the exertion of racing can create the experience for sure, but we can do that any time, no-one stops us from touring as if we were racing. Riding outside of trackers and numbered caps makes it a free-er and more complete experience imho. Touring is the basic experience that it all stems from, the rest is just what you make of it and why.

I started out loving the freedom of road touring and that's the part that stayed with me. I dabbled with racing but wasn't really inspired to compete further in that way - the route, the freedom and 'the show' always meant a lot more. I'll tour on and off-road these days and I do like to travel light and far, the minimalism is part of the appeal of lightweight touring and exploring and a lighter bike overall is nicer to ride.

I'm still trying to find out if I prefer touring or racing, having only had a few experiences of either.
I'd say they're very different experiences and I don't really see how one can go touring during a race, or claim they're racing when there's no race/opponents/cut-off time/target on their back.
And I don't understand those signing up for a race, paying £400 entry, and then claim they're touring. In my opinion they're either fools or are just trying to take pressure off themselves.

Regarding this year's Rigs of SRMR, there aren't actually that many set-ups that look too touring-oriented to me. As I'm stuck in bed and got nothing to do I went and checked how every "touring-looking" rider is doing in the race.
Surprise surprise: they've all scratched or are around the 80-100th position and currently racing the slug to finish before the cut-off time.
(I didn't consider a tailfin aeropack a touring set up. I did consider a tailfin aeropack with panniers a touring setup)

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 3:49 pm**

I was impressed by the couple with fully loaded paniers on bromptons in Durness today

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:36 pm**

Well my mate iona is off to shetland for two weeks with a basket and panniers on a Pashley princess. She has previously done the highland trail....

Panniers allow you to carry more stuff easily. If you are travelling light bikepacking bags make sense.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:43 pm**

And I don't understand those signing up for a race, paying £400 entry, and then claim they're touring. In my opinion they're either fools or are just trying to take pressure off themselves.

I think they just enjoy riding with others and the occasion, pushing on a bit but not to the level of or the pressure of endurance racing? Perhaps more a case of entering a race but doing it as a big ride rather than absolutely leaving it all on the road. Until fairly recently if you wanted to do a more social event most were timed and/or presented as some kind of race, there wasn't much like the WRT. Social / group touring (or bikepacking) is great.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 8:28 pm**

jameso wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:43 pm
And I don't understand those signing up for a race, paying £400 entry, and then claim they're touring. In my opinion they're either fools or are just trying to take pressure off themselves.
I think they just enjoy riding with others and the occasion, pushing on a bit but not to the level of or the pressure of endurance racing? Perhaps more a case of entering a race but doing it as a big ride rather than absolutely leaving it all on the road. Until fairly recently if you wanted to do a more social event most were timed and/or presented as some kind of race, there wasn't much like the WRT. Social / group touring (or bikepacking) is great.

That’s me! Or was me…!

I’ve entered a few winter events in the past as they were a bit unknown to me and I guess, a safety margin added to it rather than a solo tour (does also make it easier riding on compact snow rather than fluffy virgin stuff).

Actually enjoyed the social side to the races (which if anyone knows me, is quite amazing!), hence returning back to the same event a couple of times

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2024 8:42 pm**

jameso wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:43 pm
And I don't understand those signing up for a race, paying £400 entry, and then claim they're touring. In my opinion they're either fools or are just trying to take pressure off themselves.
I think they just enjoy riding with others and the occasion, pushing on a bit but not to the level of or the pressure of endurance racing? Perhaps more a case of entering a race but doing it as a big ride rather than absolutely leaving it all on the road. Until fairly recently if you wanted to do a more social event most were timed and/or presented as some kind of race, there wasn't much like the WRT. Social / group touring (or bikepacking) is great.

That I can kind of understand, I love the social side of big rides and that was one of the main drivers behind Tor Divide, but then I wouldn't sign up to an event like SRMR hoping to make friends

I know many people end up riding together but that's actually against the race rules. I also don't think the cut-off times at events like SRMR make for leisurely riding but others might disagree.

I guess it takes some major level of fitness to enter an event like that and afford to "take it easy" and enjoy it.

I think I'd rather enter a shorter and less remote race, or join an organised trip (there are plenty going to beautiful places like Iceland, Kyrgyzstan, Argentina, etc) and ride at touring pace with others.

Posted: **Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:02 am**

I guess it takes some major level of fitness to enter an event like that and afford to "take it easy" and enjoy it.

Maybe they're not taking it easy, rather taking it on as a challenge ride that's something halfway between a race and a tour? Like the way I'd do a half marathon if I was motivated to run that far- I'd want to finish and it'd be hard but I wouldn't consider myself 'racing'. The thing is the events are often not really races anyway but insurance might demand using trackers, trackers mean timing and timing means some want to put in a fast time or even go for a win. Take away the timing and it can all be quite different.

I'm off on my own side-track of why the scene and bike marketing is so wrapped up in racing and all the 'ultra' stuff that gets talked about.. a bit OT sorry. My take on the OP is that it will go full circle because the natural pull of the majority is not towards racing but towards the experience. The lightweight gear aspect applies as a benefit to a racer and a tourer alike and it's that light, efficient and minimal touring take on bikepacking that interests me most these days. And I remember how good touring with a rack pack and bar bag was, my gear being so much more accessible (but also rattling down every dirt track!)

Posted: **Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:24 am**

Here in the uk you’d have to wilfully avoid resupply to justify carrying multiple days food whereas in the USA you can be days from the nearest •person• so having the capacity is more or less necessary.

Last year we went road touring in Ireland (with panniers) and when you had to push the bike they made it a right pain, and that was just on flat tarmac around stations and the like. Admittedly they were full sized traditional panniers rather than the slimline ones aimed at bikepacking but even so…

I’ve come from an Alpine climbing background and when you have to carry everything on your back you tend to take as little as possible. Having the right thing is more important than having everything.

Posted: **Fri Aug 30, 2024 7:08 pm**

What no alpine huts and not using the ski lifts or cable car. Must be a big rucksack to carry all the food and water,

up to the start of the pitches.

Posted: **Sat Aug 31, 2024 7:28 am**

I've always thought the best way to ruin a nice bike ride is to enter a race.

Posted: **Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:06 am**

Sajama wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 7:08 pm What no alpine huts and not using the ski lifts or cable car. Must be a big rucksack to carry all the food and water,up to the start of the pitches.

The impecunious Brits were notorious for not using huts

We'd use the cable cars to get up the initial slopes. Rucksack was 35L in size and apart from axes and crampons everything was inside the sack. Quite often the descents were on the opposite side of the mountain so you had to carry all your kit with you. Much of Alpine climbing is about being in the right place at the right time, or rather not being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you didn't get past certain points before the sun hit the slopes above you then you just had to wait until it was safe.

Posted: **Sun Sep 01, 2024 10:17 pm**

I think a lot of the stuff you see on Bikepacking.com/YouTube/Insta is -for the most part- elite level sponsored riders.
As much as I love this content, it's basically just advertising for the big brands to shift gear.
Let's be honest with ourselves. A fit, lithe athlete doing heroic feats on the latest, expensive, unobtanium framed bike are a damn sight sexier and more marketable than a short, fat bloke -I.e., me

-mincing along my local bridleway on my cheapo iron horse!

Has bike packing (off the beaten track ) gone full circle?

Has bike packing (off the beaten track ) gone full circle?

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