I think we mentioned it before but the news is that both centres will now be closing. I'm not really sure what that means for the actual trails but I am told that NRW seem to be making life somewhat awkward for community / volunteer groups with an interest in helping.

From other reports they seem to be the visitor centres shutting but trails, recreation and toilets being kept open while they try and re-tender the running of them? Can see that trail maintenance might be hard to cover though especially with reported difficulties around collaboration with NRW.

I know cuts have hit hard, but it's crazy they are in this position... hopefully the closures are short lived..?

^^
So they’re keeping the trails open but closing the cafes, which seems a little odd as guessing the cafe would make the money to keep the trails open?

I’ve noticed llandegla in the last year or so get a little bit quieter, but still seems busy with a lot of expensive bikes knocking around there. Seems* like new routes are constantly put in there and previous trails expanded too. Shops gone bigger too, they’ve moved the workshop into the business hub they had (so assuming the hub didn’t work out but the hire and workshop side does).

*from their social media and hearsay (I don’t ride there but enjoy the place for family walks and big breakfasts )

On a personal note, I've not ridden a trail centre at all since the MTB E Bike revolution started, I have no interest in fighting off motorbikes I wonder if others have done the same to lower the numbers.

JohnClimber wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:11 pm On a personal note, I've not ridden a trail centre at all since the MTB E Bike revolution started, I have no interest in fighting off motorbikes I wonder if others have done the same to lower the numbers.

Forest of Dean was full of them a few weeks ago when I bumped into Pete. Really quite surprising.
However CYB was empty bar one e-bike although I did go mid week.
Marin trail had a few on there too near the start but didn't see them for long, I was way too slow to keep up.

Have trail centres had there day? Just idly speculating - when they were doing Glentress back in 2001, us regulars of the old trails figured it would be a fad that lasted a few years, the trails would then be abandoned and it would be back to how it was...

That didn't happen, obviously, but I've always thought that sooner or later, everyone would start getting fed up of riding round the same woods on the same trails, and look elsewhere (bikepacking!)

fatbikephil wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 pm Have trail centres had there day? Just idly speculating - when they were doing Glentress back in 2001, us regulars of the old trails figured it would be a fad that lasted a few years, the trails would then be abandoned and it would be back to how it was...

That didn't happen, obviously, but I've always thought that sooner or later, everyone would start getting fed up of riding round the same woods on the same trails, and look elsewhere (bikepacking!)

I think what riders want out of a trail centre has moved on. The FoD is hugely popular and rammed to overflowing most w/ends, Bike Park Wales the same. Predominantly DH & Enduro style trails, loads of E bikes to get back up for more runs. Meanwhile the xc style trails are quieter by comparison.

Their fortunes will pick up when you can fast charge an ebike in an hour (assuming the network can take it)

JohnClimber wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:11 pm On a personal note, I've not ridden a trail centre at all since the MTB E Bike revolution started, I have no interest in fighting off motorbikes I wonder if others have done the same to lower the numbers.

I'm with you there John. Or not there.
Last time I was at a trail centre I snuck in the back of Llandegla when bikepacking the Berwyns. Riding very slowly up a stiff climb, Julie's Climb or somesuch, I could hear two blokes yapping to each other whilst quickly catching me up and was soon overtaken by two e-bikes who barely noticed the hill.
Then on the other side, out new where Offa's Dyke peels off to World's End, 4 more flew passed me only for me to overtake them while they stopped for a fag.
Shame about NYA. Even if I never ride it, Mark of Zorro is a great descent. Not so keen on the Legburner after it though.

fatbikephil wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 pm Have trail centres had there day? Just idly speculating - when they were doing Glentress back in 2001, us regulars of the old trails figured it would be a fad that lasted a few years, the trails would then be abandoned and it would be back to how it was...

That didn't happen, obviously, but I've always thought that sooner or later, everyone would start getting fed up of riding round the same woods on the same trails, and look elsewhere (bikepacking!)

This doesn't seem to be the case. I was always astounded at how most people seem to be prefer riding the same old same old over and over.
A friend of Minty's rides Cannock, Dog & Monkey, most Fridays on his £13k e-bike. Never goes anywhere else. Probably avoids pay to park too. Mind boggling.

At 8 quid a day, I wouldn't entirely blame him for not paying for parking. I only pay if I'm taking the kids, otherwise I ride from home. There's so many trails, both marked and unmarked on the chase that the only reason to stick to the dog & monkey is if you specifically want man-made features.

godivatrailrider wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:15 am This doesn't seem to be the case. I was always astounded at how most people seem to be prefer ridding the same old same old over and over.
A friend of Minty's rides Cannock, Dog & Monkey, most Fridays on his £13k e-bike. Never goes anywhere else. Probably avoids pay to park too. Mind boggling.

A friend tried to set up bikepacking guiding in the Cairngorms with his business partner thinking they might attract the trail centre crowd (or at lest the more adventurous ones) and they got little response - in fact the only trips they pulled off were with people already bikepacking.

Some informal market research indicated the trail centre crowd wanted a day on the trails followed by a few beers in the pub telling lies to each other...

Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with that, in moderation, but we were slightly incredulous by peoples unwillingness to do something a bit out of the ordinary.

unwillingness to do something a bit out of the ordinary

Wait until you find out about what 99% of the non-cycling population think about the prospect of riding a bike in the rain and sleeping in a ditch.

Shame about CyB, I liked calling in there on trips that passed through. Good food and a battery charge spot.

On a personal note, I've not ridden a trail centre at all since the MTB E Bike revolution started, I have no interest in fighting off motorbikes

You should give it a go, it's fine. I went to CwmCarn not that long ago, 90% or more of the bikes there were E-MTB FS. I was on a rigid SS and I did wonder what it'd be like. Zero problems all day. They moved over on the rare occasion I caught one going uphill, I moved over or they held back on the descents depending where it was. Same as it always was really with a mix of rider speed and ability. Was fun comparing notes with a few of them along the way but I got no takers for my offer of bike swaps

johnnystorm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 3:20 pm

unwillingness to do something a bit out of the ordinary

Wait until you find out about what 99% of the non-cycling population think about the prospect of riding a bike in the rain and sleeping in a ditch.

Just what I thought when I read that.

jameso wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 4:09 pm Shame about CyB, I liked calling in there on trips that passed through. Good food and a battery charge spot.

On a personal note, I've not ridden a trail centre at all since the MTB E Bike revolution started, I have no interest in fighting off motorbikes

You should give it a go, it's fine. I went to CwmCarn not that long ago, 90% or more of the bikes there were E-MTB FS. I was on a rigid SS and I did wonder what it'd be like. Zero problems all day. They moved over on the rare occasion I caught one going uphill, I moved over or they held back on the descents depending where it was. Same as it always was really with a mix of rider speed and ability. Was fun comparing notes with a few of them along the way but I got no takers for my offer of bike swaps

I was just thinking it's a bout time I rode the SS Krampus on a lap of Glentress

johnnystorm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 3:20 pm Wait until you find out about what 99% of the non-cycling population think about the prospect of riding a bike in the rain and sleeping in a ditch.

What, you don't want to ride for 12 hours in the rain and then sleep under a bit of nylon for 4 hours, before doing it again? I can't imagine why not!

Statement from Beicsbrenin:

Bike shop and hire centre to remain open at Coed y Brenin.

Last week, NRW announced proposals to close visitor centres at Nant yr Arian, Ynyslas and Coed y Brenin. We have been instructed by NRW that while budgets exist to keep the centres open until April 1st 2024, there is a risk that the visitor centre cafe at Coed y Brenin could close sooner, possibly as early as October. It is important to stress that nothing has yet been decided, NRW staff are in union consultations and this process will take around 45 days to complete so we will not have anything confirmed until later in the year. However, from what we know at this point it appears NRW have no plans to close the trails.

NRW support our continuation on site, so right now, it is business as usual for Beics Brenin. Assuming no further bad news of service cuts, it is our intention to remain open as we have done and continue to offer bike hire and bike shop from the site. In addition, our partners Pedal MTB will continue to provide lessons, courses and guided rides. Our existing tender is set to run until 2028 and we continue to plan and forecast for this period until instructed otherwise by NRW. We currently have no information about a timetable for change or any idea of what the future plans for the visitor centre and trails at Coed y Brenin are.

A group of local stakeholders have now formed a cooperative, Caru Coed y Brenin, to investigate the feasibility of a local body taking over the management of the centre and possibly its trail network in the future. We are working with this group and support its aims. At the same time we continue to work closely with NRW to ensure continuity of service on site at Coed y Brenin through the implementation of their change process.

This year, the forest park extended its trail network with the addition of over 100km of signposted gravel/adventure routes earlier this year, no small project. Knowing how much work went into bringing these new routes to life, the announcement of such serious cuts is of course, extremely saddening.

Coed y Brenin has a unique character and offering that continues to provide a valuable alternative to the experience offered by uplift bike parks. Here, riding remains free at the point of access on trails that are easily accessible and cater for all ability levels. If you value this, the best thing you can do to continue to visit and support the centre by using its trails.

As far as we are concerned, Coed y Brenin remains very much open for business. Summer is bringing thousands of new and returning visitors to the centre to enjoy its vast trail network which remains a thriving hub of UK cycling. We plan to do all in our power to ensure Coed y Brenin continues to deliver great riding and access to the outdoors that can be enjoyed by all.

Beics Brenin team.

I saw that press release yesterday ... Dee was later talking to her friend who's the wife of the fella who manages the shop and thinking seems to be that regardless of the rhetoric, NRW have said / implied that they'd be willing to simply tear up any contract. Doubtful anyone has deep enough pockets to pursue that in court.

Hmm, I know someone who works there and is also a friend of the proprietor. Would seem a bit odd for them to renege on any current contracts, and clearly Beics Brenin is one of the few things outside of car parking that is making money there - though obv not to the direct benefit of NRW. But having the workshop and bike hire undoubtedly adds to what the venue can offer. I hope none of that comes to pass though, and that the VC closures are temporary.

FWIW I see trail centres as all part of the MTBing mix. You get a decent amount of fun out of it, there are no other trail user types to worry about/consider, and some of the trails are really nice. I wouldn't ride them every day, but if I lived locally i'd certainly be there regularly enough. When I did live in mid Wales, I'd often go to NYA or Cwm Rhaeadr just to mix it up with the natural rides involving sheep sh!t, locked gates, and bog trots. Living where I am now I get almost no chance to go to any, but wish I did get to one a few times a year just for the fun of it.

EDIT: Swinley is my closest, and i've been a few times in the past, but it's nothing like a Welsh trail centre.

One issue seems to be that NRW are now responsible for many things and way more than simply wood and trees. I was told that recreation makes up only 3% of their workload, yet costs / looses a considerable amount of money. I doubt they'd be sorry to see the back of it.

That seems somewhat at odds with the directive to the old forestry commission 20 odd years ago to take on recreation as part of its business plan. I wonder if, with the huge growth in the timber industry of late, if the devolved fc's are trying to forget recreation and focus on cash... progress....

Only a smallish part of what they're responsible for is wood now Phil. Natural resources covers a broad spectrum.

Wind farms are probably much more lucrative

As someone that works for NRW (but fortunately isn't up for redundancy as many are) the general idea is that anything that isnt a statutory responsibility or doesn't pay for itself is being cut.

Sounds like the visitor centres have been making a loss so I'm not surprised that they're going. In my opinion not everything should have to make money to be worthwhile but Welsh Government and by extension UK gov won't fund NRW enough to keep them open.

the general idea is that anything that isnt a statutory responsibility or doesn't pay for itself is being cut.

Indeed, I was told something in the region of 250k and 300k a year loss at CyB.