• Ultralightweight 2season sleeping bag?

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:23 am**

Im in the market for a lightweight (say 500gr) sleeping bag that i could use in summer in Alpine environment, and in the UK in the shoulder seasons.
Use would be for ultracycling events hence the need for it to be lightweight.
Ive been using a £50 500gr Highlander summer bag which has been nearly always too cold unless temps stay well above 15degs.

Ive seen a few options from Sea to Summit (SparkI) and Thermarest Hyperion.
They're all insanely expensive so before pulling the trigger I'd like to get some first hand opinions or perhaps recommendations for alternatives.

I don't have a strong preference on down vs synthetic although synthetic would be better for UK use.

I'd be using it in combo with a thermarest mat and a silk liner.
I'm 6'4" so I'd need a size large which rules out Criterion and a few others unfortunately.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:36 am**

I reckon at 6'4", 500g for something '2 season' is probably too much of an ask. As you've already kind of discovered, 500g is really the realm of one or two weeks of high summer ... especially true of a synthetic bag.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:39 am**

Valerio wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:23 am ...£50 500gr Highlander summer bag...

No experience or advice about the bags you're looking at other than to say I have one of these Highlander bags, for which I paid about £25. I removed about 50g off the weight by chopping off all extraneous covers and fittings and I doubt I have spent more than one night sleeping in it as I only carry it for events like BB200 when a bag is in the minimum kit list but I have no intention of sleeping unless I need something to keep me alive until the air ambulance arrives! But then I sleep cold so no UK night is going to be comfortable in a 12°C comfort bag.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:44 am**

Dyffers wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:39 am
Valerio wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:23 am ...£50 500gr Highlander summer bag...
No experience or advice about the bags you're looking at other than to say I have one of these Highlander bags, for which I paid about £25. I removed about 50g off the weight by chopping off all extraneous covers and fittings and I doubt I have spent more than one night sleeping in it as I only carry it for events like BB200 when a bag is in the minimum kit list but I have no intention of sleeping unless I need something to keep me alive until the air ambulance arrives! But then I sleep cold so no UK night is going to be comfortable in a 12°C comfort bag.

I've done Tuscany Trail, Badger Divide, a few overnighters in the UK with it.
I've used it in combination with a cheap decathlon sleeping pad which didn't help if at all but....igenerally managed although by wearing merino long sleeve and merino long johns.
It performs a lot better when used in a tent.
In Italy it has been either too cold (13degs) or too hot (25degs).

I can't really fault it for the price, but I'm hoping to find better alternatives for the same weight.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:48 am**

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:36 am I reckon at 6'4", 500g for something '2 season' is probably too much of an ask. As you've already kind of discovered, 500g is really the realm of one or two weeks of high summer ... especially true of a synthetic bag.

500gr is indicative....I'll take 600gr

especially if it saves me some cash.

I found the 500gr bag too hot in Italian spring at low altitude, but also too cold as soon as I've taken it up to 8-900m asl.
I doubt the bag I have uses the best fibers so I'm hoping to find something better. I appreciate I'll have to pair it with baselayers and it might still not make for the best night of sleep.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:58 am**

I think I'd be looking for a down quilt or even blanket. That's likely to provide the most warmth for minimum weight and packsize.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:58 am**

Ah, something I know about from far too many under-insulated nights!

A grade up in insanely expensive but very good ime - PHD Minim Ultra is ~330g and I'm happy in that at 8-10 deg, have used it down to a few degrees and been ok with a down gilet or jacket loose inside the bag, fully clothed etc. Workable at 5-6 deg upwards for racing or short sleeps. Thermarest and silk liner most of the time here also. They can offer custom options for your height but unsure of weight and cost gain. It was £££ but bought for an important race, still in use a decade later so it was money well spent.

I also have a PHD custom quilt* that's 185cm end to end, 1000FP and ~260g, obviously only for summer use, it's fine if the forecast is >10 deg nights and you're in a sheltered spot. Great for audax type weekend trips where I'm not sure about how much sleep I'll want or a few hrs in a bus stop is fine. The tiny pack size is a real advantage.

I've doubled them up and slept ok at 2000m+ in the Alps in September, just below freezing. Was ok but at 600g total I'd rather have a good quilt, seems you can get something with ~280g of down in XL length and 550g approx total that is rated to around 5 deg for under £300 / less than a Hyperion.

*a result of a development project with PHD before anyone thinks I spend silly money on sleeping gear

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:16 am**

You're quickly getting in to the "Light, cheap, quality - pick any two" terrain.

For "ultra-cycling" events the question is really do you want just to recover and get a bit of rest or do you want a good night's sleep? For the former you want a system that lets you sleep but after a few hours you've cooled down enough that you wake. For the latter you want something a bit better. (the same cooling down is happening, it's just that you will be up and about before you actually get cold)

For a given temperature rating the weight is going to depend on the amount of filling and its effectiveness. Sticking with down, 250g of 750fp down might be equivalent to 200g of 900fp (I've not done the maths so the figures might be out) but the 900fp down costs more.

Then you have the weight of the shell: I've a Cumulus 150 quilt, "150" because it's got 150g of down in it, duh. It weighs 360g so well over half of the product isn't the insulation but the shell. Go up one model in the range and you've 250g of down but the shell only increases by 10g, similarly for the 350g version. The material used for the shell also affects compressability but at the expense of durability, the 10D and 7D materials on the superlight bags and quilts doesn't stand up to rough handling but I've over 200 nights in the Cumulus and it's been fine.

I'm a warm sleeper and the 150 is fine for me between April and October most years. For the cooler months I layer it with a PHD summer sleeping bag and have been good to -6C. For a little extra weight, and under your 500g "limit", the Cumulus 250 would be fine for most people outside the winter months.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:19 am**

jameso wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:58 am A grade up in insanely expensive but very good ime - PHD Minim Ultra is ~330g and I'm happy in that at 8-10 deg, have used it down to a few degrees and been ok with a down gilet

Seconded. Had mine down to close to 0C and survived. As said, insanely pricey but, really, how many kidneys do you actually need most of the time? And I rationalise these decisions by thinking, well, some misguided people pay £100/night to sleep inside bricks and mortar. Admittedly they don't have to pay to wash the bedclothes afterwards but still... So "it soon pays for itself" so long as you can weather the upfront cost of course.

Enjoyed your bits of info Bob.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:43 am**

Sadly I'm not sure you can get these any more ..but .. I've been using a Yeti Vib 150 for years and it is my go to lightweight bag. I add a liner/down trousers if I think it's going to get cold. I've crossed Spain twice, and raced the TD with it.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:52 am**

Thanks All!

I'm intrigued by quilts but having never tried one and with the event I need the bag for approaching in a few weeks time, I don't feel confident enough getting one now without enough testing.

PHD is a no-go for me. I just can't afford it I'm afraid.
Even £200-300 it's really stretching my budget but I appreciate I'm not going to find anything for less....unless someone knows a manufacturer I have not yet considered?

Has anyone tried Sea to Summit, Thermarest....or Aegismax?

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:57 am**

Dave Barter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:43 am Sadly I'm not sure you can get these any more ..but .. I've been using a Yeti Vib 150 for years and it is my go to lightweight bag. I add a liner/down trousers if I think it's going to get cold. I've crossed Spain twice, and raced the TD with it.

I believe Nordisk bought Yeti. I can find the VIB 250 XL for £400...looks great though!

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:57 am**

500g is really the realm of one or two weeks of high summer ... especially true of a synthetic bag

This i have a nordisk oscar ( 330g synthetic rated to 10 degrees (5ft 10) ) even in high summer i need a sol bivvy inside it to not be cold - and i like/ prefer sleeping cold . It is insanely light and lighter than most puffa jackets but its not very warm.and would not fancy it at alltitude.

Dont have any reall.suggestiona for you just warnings/advice

Quilts you will either get o with an dlike or wont so agree an event is not the time to diacover the answer . Me dont mind for autumn / spring but not for winter . Mine isntoo warm for summer as its rated at 5 degrees and its an accurate ish rating . Valley and peak do synthetic ones

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 11:18 am**

whitestone wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:16 am You're quickly getting in to the "Light, cheap, quality - pick any two" terrain.

For "ultra-cycling" events the question is really do you want just to recover and get a bit of rest or do you want a good night's sleep? For the former you want a system that lets you sleep but after a few hours you've cooled down enough that you wake. For the latter you want something a bit better. (the same cooling down is happening, it's just that you will be up and about before you actually get cold)

For a given temperature rating the weight is going to depend on the amount of filling and its effectiveness. Sticking with down, 250g of 750fp down might be equivalent to 200g of 900fp (I've not done the maths so the figures might be out) but the 900fp down costs more.

Then you have the weight of the shell: I've a Cumulus 150 quilt, "150" because it's got 150g of down in it, duh. It weighs 360g so well over half of the product isn't the insulation but the shell. Go up one model in the range and you've 250g of down but the shell only increases by 10g, similarly for the 350g version. The material used for the shell also affects compressability but at the expense of durability, the 10D and 7D materials on the superlight bags and quilts doesn't stand up to rough handling but I've over 200 nights in the Cumulus and it's been fine.

I'm a warm sleeper and the 150 is fine for me between April and October most years. For the cooler months I layer it with a PHD summer sleeping bag and have been good to -6C. For a little extra weight, and under your 500g "limit", the Cumulus 250 would be fine for most people outside the winter months.

Thanks Bob!

Part of the reason of me not knowing what to buy is that I never had a down bag, so I struggle to understand how much fill I would need. I take manufacturer's ratings with a pinch of salt.

I'm looking for something that would allow me to have 4-5hrs of uninterrupted sleep and give me the peace of mind of being able to crack on with the riding without necessarily having to worry about where the next hotel is.
Some of the lightest bags I've seen have 200gr of down (750-900f). It sounds like they could be enough for 2season use?

My main concern is forking out £300 only to realise I've completely missed the mark and bought a bag that is barely warmer than my £50 Highlander.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:04 pm**

If you want a bag, not a quilt -

RAB Alpine 200 or Neutrino 200, size long.

Trekkit usually have good deals.

I have both.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:12 pm**

My Alpine is a 400 long. Paid £210 earlier this year.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:41 pm**

I've had a couple of summer/race weight synthetic bags and they've been not been very warm or have been cut very snug. I've had PhD down bags in the past, I tried to save weight on those by skimping on length or width. That made for some warm, but uncomfortable nights. These days I mainly use a synthetic quilt, which is warmer but pretty bulky.

When you say 2 season, what temperature rating were you looking at? At the moment the UK seasons seem to be 'cold' and 'colder'. A quilt or something with a full zip might make sense for warmer temperatures if you can open it up and vent a little - do you have that option with your current bag?

Mats can make a lot of difference too, especially with a quilt. Is your thermarest insulated? If not, then you might need to factor that in to pricing.

I don't think there's a good takeaway, other than "sleep setups" being expensive, but expensive to skimp out on them too. The PhD bags I bought were a lot cheaper 10 years ago and on sale, but they still weren't cheap, and I've ended up buying half a dozen things in between when trying to cut corners and had a far few miserable nights along the way :(

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:14 pm**

I've just bought myself a Sea To Summit SP1, only used the once up to now on Saturday night at around 9-10° the bag was superb which I expect it should be at that temp, 385g (long version) here's the link for info

https://www.tradeinn.com/trekkinn/en/se ... lsrc=aw.ds

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:46 pm**

I got a Marmot Micron 40 which you can get in long c 700g with 650 fill

Picked up cheap off fleabay

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:33 pm**

Thanks All!

I ended up going for a Sea to summit Spark -1C.
I can now get rid of the Highlander and Eurohike sleeping bags I managed with so far. With a comfort of 4degs it should do OK in UK conditions most of the year and, I hope, cope with alpine environment in summer.

I've got a Patagonia liner bag that I can use for fast overnighters or when I don't plan to stop (used on BB200 last year).

The Sea To Summit bag has good reviews online, now I just need to wait for it to arrive and test it.
On paper, it's cheaper and roomier than the Thermarest.

Lee,
I had not seen the spI on sale otherwise I would have probably got that one, although I think the spark-1 might better complement the rest of the kit I have.
Good to hear yours has lived up to the expectations!

Posted: **Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:05 am**

Sea to Summit kit is good, I have a 10c down quilt of theirs and found the temp rating to be accurate.

Biggest revelation for me was going from an exped synmat to a Vango aotrom(sp?) 3/4 one when it's warmer.

I get just as good a nights sleep but the pack size is so much smaller.

Have just spent a month around the Pyrenees using that setup and been very happy with it.

Used in a tent and wearing merino base layers as pyjamas

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:03 am**

Still using my Zpacks 0C down bag after 10 years and it holds up ok. They do a 6' 6" bag....should be more than enough length. Not cheap, but if you use it a lot, it's not a bad buy. On the lighter end of ultralight. I think mine comes in ~500g.

Greetz

S : )

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:19 pm**

yourguitarhero wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:05 am Sea to Summit kit is good, I have a 10c down quilt of theirs and found the temp rating to be accurate.

Biggest revelation for me was going from an exped synmat to a Vango aotrom(sp?) 3/4 one when it's warmer.

I get just as good a nights sleep but the pack size is so much smaller.

Have just spent a month around the Pyrenees using that setup and been very happy with it.

Used in a tent and wearing merino base layers as pyjamas

I was looking at one-off those Vango mats. What temps are you looking at realistically, and do you think it'd work for milder bivvying?

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:54 pm**

I've been using it down to 8c overnight (with 10c quilt) and it's been fine. Only started using it this summer so haven't tried colder

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:28 pm**

yourguitarhero wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:54 pm I've been using it down to 8c overnight (with 10c quilt) and it's been fine. Only started using it this summer so haven't tried colder

Cheers

Ultralightweight 2season sleeping bag?

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