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Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:26 am
by drain
Thought it might be interesting to get the views on here of seasoned (and new) wild campers about a subscription service that’s just launched,
https://www.campwild.uk/.
I came across it via a professional network (long story short, I’m involved with getting natural capital to be part of the solution to our problems, not just ‘building stuff’ as our default response). I’ve got no association with the people launching this, in case anyone’s wondering if this is a plug.
The rationale is that encouraging people out into wild spaces both helps their well-being but also makes them appreciate those spaces more.
Generally, the more people value something, the more they look after it.
Anyhoo… thoughts?
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:33 am
by Dave Barter
I think this data should be open and not subject to a £20 per annum subscription. It's also not wild camping, it's camping on private land that is not a designated campsite.
I definitely see the market and attraction to a certain segment but in my view closed data never solves a problem.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:49 am
by sean_iow
I'm confused here, is it the same as this one that's been going a while
https://nearlywildcamping.org/
Seem to have the same photo on the home page.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:54 am
by Dave Barter
I think the new one is for punters and the one you linked is for suppliers, the loop is now closed
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:59 am
by drain
Ha, that’s interesting! Maybe they’ve (both!) just used a stock photo? The dot locations on the map look pretty similar.
Seems like there’s a demand out there for this if there’s more than one. I guess it’s a bit like some of the bike holiday companies - they take some of the hassle away for those who can’t be bothered / don’t have the time to plan, curate etc. Although for me that’s a big part of the fun!
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:59 am
by sean_iow
Dave Barter wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:54 am
I think the new one is for punters and the one you linked is for suppliers, the loop is now closed
The one I linked to is for both, you can join as a camper for £24 a year and then get access to the locations. I see the 'new' one is only £20 a year.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:01 am
by jameso
So this is camping on private land that's not a campsite, simply suitable open land where permission is granted if you pay and book?
I quite like the idea. I wouldn't pay to join/subbscribe though. I don't pay to join Air BnB or booking.com, I just pay to book a campsite or room. I would pay to use a good bivi spot on private land, and that's from someone who has no qualms generally about bivi-ing out of the way on private land (rule #1 filters where I'd think is ok and where I'd not camp)
I guess the sites have rules for #2s and things like that..
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:07 am
by drain
Dave Barter wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:33 am
I think this data should be open and not subject to a £20 per annum subscription. It's also not wild camping, it's camping on private land that is not a designated campsite.
I definitely see the market and attraction to a certain segment but in my view closed data never solves a problem.
Yeah interesting point on open data, Dave (likewise a huge fan). I can see that getting revenue from arranging and conveying that knowledge (intellectual capital, if you like) makes sense from a commercial perspective though.
To some extent my receptiveness depends on the motivation which, from what I’ve seen, probably is a genuine desire to get people to appreciate the world around them more. I guess this is entering into the territory of “if something is invaluable, it’s worthless”.
I think my chief concern initially was about how this could backfire and negatively impact wild places, but the ‘Snap In, Snap Out’ requirement is a good idea (although it’s not explicit what the sanction for non compliance is).
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:29 am
by sean_iow
drain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:07 am
Yeah interesting point on open data, Dave (likewise a huge fan). I can see that getting revenue from arranging and conveying that knowledge (intellectual capital, if you like) makes sense from a commercial perspective though.
The other version describe themselves as
The Nearly Wild Camping Club is a non-profit co-operative of like-minded people – bringing together ambassadors for the countryside, its rich heritage and wildlife, with those seeking to explore and learn through informal fun.
I assume their membership fee covers the website hosting and admin etc. A bit like the local tourist boards do. The one on the Island takes a fee from the B and Bs etc. and then they get a much wider advertising reach than they could afford if the they did it themselves.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:39 am
by Alpinum
jameso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:01 am
I don't pay to join Air BnB or booking.com, I just pay to book a campsite or room.
Indeed and with that payment you pay fees. I just recently saw a 24.- CHF fee on AirBnB, was about 10 % of the total price.
Givem 5 years to realise that they could offer two versions: annual membership with reduced prices and non- membership with higher prices.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:55 pm
by Lazarus
I can see the market for it but I am not part of it.( and would want to know site camping fees)
It's just private camping dressed up as wild camping.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:35 pm
by drain
Lazarus wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:55 pm
I can see the market for it but I am not part of it.( and would want to know site camping fees)
It's just private camping dressed up as wild camping.
It does have that feel of being a bit of an intermediate step between straightforward campsite camping and full on DIY, à la carte wild camping, yes.
But if it gets some more people out there and appreciating nature, so they can find their own way of doing things, then overall that’s probably A Good Thing.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:40 pm
by jameso
I've had a few good nights in Wales where someone's offered a field, orchard etc to camp in - all the things I like about a wild bivi but none of he feeling that you might get moved on or grief for being there.A spot someone's offered will always feel better from the chance conversation and goodwill it comes from, but on occasion I would pay for that, eg in Wales where it can be tricky to find good spots.
How much and how easy it is to book last minute from a phone would make the difference.
Indeed and with that payment you pay fees. I just recently saw a 24.- CHF fee on AirBnB, was about 10 % of the total price.
Givem 5 years to realise that they could offer two versions: annual membership with reduced prices and non- membership with higher prices.
Two versions could work well. I expect they would earn a fee from the land owner, as a user I'm not too fussed how that works as long as the per-night cost is fair value. A basic field near a pub for a fiver, an amazing spot on higher ground with a view and a clean water source, 1 booking a night so guaranteed only you there? Maybe a fair bit more.
I get that some inc me might raise a 'property is theft ' or right to roam argument but it's also good to have the option rather than not, while we have the system we have in England and Wales.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:04 pm
by redefined_cycles
jameso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:40 pm
I've had a few good nights in Wales where someone's offered a field, orchard etc to camp in - all the things I like about a wild bivi but none of he feeling that you might get moved on or grief for being there.A spot someone's offered will always feel better from the chance conversation and goodwill it comes from, but on occasion I would pay for that, eg in Wales where it can be tricky to find good spots.
How much and how easy it is to book last minute from a phone would make the difference.
Indeed and with that payment you pay fees. I just recently saw a 24.- CHF fee on AirBnB, was about 10 % of the total price.
Givem 5 years to realise that they could offer two versions: annual membership with reduced prices and non- membership with higher prices.
Two versions could work well. I expect they would earn a fee from the land owner, as a user I'm not too fussed how that works as long as the per-night cost is fair value. A basic field near a pub for a fiver, an amazing spot on higher ground with a view and a clean water source, 1 booking a night so guaranteed only you there? Maybe a fair bit more.
I get that some inc me might raise a 'property is theft ' or right to roam argument but it's also good to have the option rather than not, while we have the system we have in England and Wales.
You hit the nail right on the head... Especially that feeling of being moved on by the farmer etc. Looking forward to more info coming together and hopefully getting my little one out with me God Willing.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:15 pm
by Lazarus
But if it gets some more people out there and appreciating nature, so they can find their own way of doing things, then overall that’s probably A Good Thing.
Yes it's great for that half way / not nervous about being moved on.
What sort of prices are a pitch though as I assume they are not free
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:17 pm
by Bearbonesnorm
eg in Wales where it can be tricky to find good spots.
Really?
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:28 pm
by fatbikephil
Wildcamping for people who don't like wildcamping? I guess it's to get round the 'no camping' laws without people spending a fortune on a campsite that has heated loos, on site bar and childrens adventure playground so a kind of re-invention of the simple campsites that used to abound int good old days but seemed to have disappeared in recent years.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:34 pm
by jameso
Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:17 pm
eg in Wales where it can be tricky to find good spots.
Really?
It can be when I'm riding mainly on the road - should have mentioned that bit. So much of Wales is either farm land, at a steep angle or both : ) and I generally won't cross a fence or climb over a gate to bivi. All less of an issue when I'm on the MTB of course.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:41 pm
by RIP
jameso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:34 pm
I generally won't cross a fence or climb over a gate to bivi
(Quick small digression, apologies) Agreed, and pretty sure I never have. But how are you with opening an
unlocked door or gate? I probably shouldn't pursue this one too closely
.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:42 pm
by Bearbonesnorm
It can be when I'm riding mainly on the road
That's what bus shelters are for
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:49 pm
by jameso
RIP wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:41 pm
jameso wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:34 pm
I generally won't cross a fence or climb over a gate to bivi
(Quick small digression, apologies) Agreed, and pretty sure I never have. But how are you with opening an
unlocked door or gate? I probably shouldn't pursue this one too closely
.
If unlocked means an open farm gate - onto grassy, unmanaged land? Probably ok. Open gate where it looks like a tractor has been in and out all day and will probably be back early the next morning? Nope
Unlocked door, it depends. Church, yes. Creepy old house, no thanks. Odd really since the church is more likely to be haunted
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:55 pm
by jameso
Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:42 pm
It can be when I'm riding mainly on the road
That's what bus shelters are for
Very true. I think the last bivi I had while actually in Wales on the road bike was a bus shelter, not far from Monmouth on the way home. Main reason was that it was dry.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:21 pm
by Bearbonesnorm
The cynic within can't help thinking that as with so much in life, 'wildcamping' has become yet another catchphrase that at times bears little resemblance to its initial meaning.
The same cynic also wonders whether 'paying' equals expectation but by not paying for something, it is often devalued which in turn can mean it's not treated with respect ... neither of which can ultimately be good for genuine wildcampers? Uhm, catch22.
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:28 pm
by Lazarus
I generally won't cross a fence or climb over a gate to bivi
Never really bothered me but dont think i would do it in a field with an arable crop
Re: Widening wildcamping
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:31 pm
by thenorthwind
I've been aware of Nearly Wild Camping for a few years and like the concept... Kinda like Airbnb (back when Airbnb was actually people's spare rooms) for basic camping in people's gardens. But as other people have said, the fee put me off: I'd be happy enough to pay it if I knew I would use it at least once (hopefully more) but I don't if I'm going to sign up then find there's nowhere I want to stay.
The name was good though: says exactly what it is. I'm not a fan of calling it something it isn't. It's not wild camping, so call it something else.