Just thinking out loud in case anyone has come across any brakes (for economy money) that might be suitable for an off road Everesting. Current ones are good in Shimano SLX flavour but seems like my hands might fall off by the time I'm halfway down!

Plus, the pads (if I use resin which are quietest) will need changing every 25 miles (2200m). First thing that came to my head was some Shimano Saints, but, these Shimano SLX are all over with their bite point. Starts off at a different amount of squeeze than when I end the ride (kindof). It's not all over the place but definitely an obvious change and cosntantly needing to change the bit point adjuster at the start of the ride, once they're warmed up!

Thanks.

I'd start with bleeding your brakes


Then use sintered pads

The brakes get plenty of time to cool down on every ascent

riderdown wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:29 pm I'd start with bleeding your brakes


Then use sintered pads

The brakes get plenty of time to cool down on every ascent

Sintered kept squealing for me. After months of squealing (actually years, but that's including the other set until I finally conceded and went resin on these and the squeal went) I went to resin. Had bled both ends recently (sctually, over 500 miles ago. Main reason for asking wasn't the brakes burning but needing to press hard.

Might bleed em again and try Shimanos own sintered. Before was getting the Uber ones which may have contributed to the squeal (but never had squealing probs on the various Avid brakes over 10 years !

When I did an Everesting last year I just used standard Shimano XT. They were fine and the pads lasted the 24 hours of riding required just fine.

schmiken wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:55 pm When I did an Everesting last year I just used standard Shimano XT. They were fine and the pads lasted the 24 hours of riding required just fine.

Thanks Schmiken. Which hill did you use please. Mine is quite gnarly (silly, I know, but it'll be worth it) and the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Oh, and well done on your Everesting

the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Stop dragging your brakes man

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:27 pm

the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Stop dragging your brakes man

My thoughts too

Unless you've found the only muddy bog left in the country, there's no way that 4000m of descent should wear through a set of pads in the current conditions. If you are Everesting the climb then it's not going to be too technical so letting things roll as much as possible is the way to ride.

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:27 pm

the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Stop dragging your brakes man

Very true Stu. I keep trying to do the feathering stuff but after the 8th repeat it becomes a bit... complicated. Will try harder next time, thanks

whitestone wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:38 pm

Bearbonesnorm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:27 pm

the pads I put on 10 days ago are almost done. That's about 4000m of climbing/descending!

Stop dragging your brakes man

My thoughts too

Unless you've found the only muddy bog left in the country, there's no way that 4000m of descent should wear through a set of pads in the current conditions. If you are Everesting the climb then it's not going to be too technical so letting things roll as much as possible is the way to ride.

Bob, do you know on the Northpeaks100,after the only proper technical descent. When you come out at the gate and theres a gap big enough to ride through on the side. Then you meet the path and through the gate with the gap on the side to hoik the bike over and you go yhrough like a sheep-pen (or whatever they're called that makes em go through single file. Well,it's the climb after the gate after that.

I've named 4 sections that are super tough and rough. Before now (in about 80 ascents over 15 years) I'd only ever climbed it about 5 times. Currently on 7 consecutive climbs without dabbing (but pausing for a few moments at the top or bottom). It's hard enough (for me) that it gets my lactic acid built up on the DH and I'm constantly trying to relax to keep that managed. Gate to Farm (but I've renamed it, Back Lane Propa to get the full 285ft showing in each climb) it's called in Strava

I'm gonna say it's probably the hardest mtb track Everested (without going to the silly ones like Snowden where that chap had to walk the last few climbs at the top) in the UK. Or at least up there with the tough ones, notwithstanding The Skelp which is apparently near Cair Cadair but was done by (Mr Superhuman) Sir Litespeed

https://www.sirguylitespeed.com/everest ... ountain-2/

https://strava.app.link/8fvIqqskwAb

It's this one. You're probably right that I don't have my DH technique going for me. But that's probably the reason why I always tend to avoid riding down this climb usually. Keep having thoughts about putting on thw sus forks up front as I'll then lose time uphill (maybe).

I'll give em a bleed and try to lay off the braking as much as poss - but the rocks constantly come in the way - and maybe see if I can get another set of sintered pads from elsewhere than Uber

Thanks all.

That was one of the few climbs I didn't clean but it was pretty close to the end of my loop - I started at the tower on Castle Hill near Huddersfield - so less than 10km to the end. Thought it was slippy/loose in places but can't remember much about it.

Very true Stu. I keep trying to do the feathering stuff but after the 8th repeat it becomes a bit... complicated. Will try harder next time, thanks

Dragging or feathering (sounds like the same thing) provides limited time for brakes to cool and there's also the issue of not actually having full control of the bike while braking (it's the laws of physics, I didn't just make it up). Much better to pick your braking areas and brake hard within them (ideally they'll be the less technical / steep sections) and then allow the bike to roll unhindered between them.

I would say that when you are in your 50's and riding a very steep and rocky descent at 6am, dragging your brakes is absolutely fine

'Tis a bad habit though - I've glazed two sets of uber sintered pads doing this too much.

Sintered kept squealing for me. After months of squealing (actually years, but that's including the other set until I finally conceded and went resin on these and the squeal went)

Are you using the proper discs?

I use the bog standard cheap steel ones that say resin pads only, work great with sintered pads

I found that genuine shim icetech pads and disks with their little fins tend to work well and don’t ever seem to over heat and fade. In my opinion they are better then most of the other brands. If you can het them and are happy to spend the money, swissstop i find are the best stopping pads though. Just crazy expensive these days. Using with Xt levers and callys though. As the others have said break hard on them totally off to the next hard break. Perhaps practise breaking technic as you will find you can really go much harder on the breaks and use them far less often than you think you actually need them to.

Also wear a full face helmet when going for it down hill. Seen enough people de-prettify themselves to not risk it during dh runs.

Sintered kept squealing for me. After months of squealing (actually years, but that's including the other set until I finally conceded and went resin on these and the squeal went)

Are you using the proper discs?

I use the bog standard cheap steel ones that say resin pads only, work great with sintered pads

Always wondered if this could be partly my problem (other than riding the brakes - but needs must as it's 16% DH full of rocks that don't stay put from one descent to the next - might see if Stu can book training remotely ). Maybe I'll experiment with the discs after a full bleed and (maybe) sintered, and trying harder not to ride the brakes!

Also wear a full face helmet when going for it down hill. Seen enough people de-prettify themselves to not risk it during dh runs.

It's gonna be 103 descents Duncan. Hence the DH probably out of the question and why I'm trying to see about upgrading the brakes in the first instance

Agree with Swisstops though, vaguely exciting braking on the road bike with em. Much better than the DA pads. Did wonder if they'll manage the same feat in the disc/mtb world. But you appear to have confirmed it. Ta

It's 80m of height loss each time, not really that much, well within XC capabilities

Edit:
You segment reminds me of a short stretch of track on one of the sides of one of my fav mountains for shuttle assisted riding. Every now and then I ride 4 - 5 x adding up to 7000 - 9000 m vert loss. That rather tame (not tech, just rough) stretch with some fist and baby head sized rocks becomes a sufferfest at the end of the day. Hands are sore, annular ligaments inflamed, some arm pump - despite 170/156 mm of travel and strong brakes. That's were strong arms/hands come in. Best advice I can give you is to train them accordingly.

Use a powerball 12 min each day to start off. 4 sets of 3 min; 2 left, 2 right. Obvs. change side after a set. After a bunch of weeks 2 x 12 min (like morning and evening) and later then 2 x 18 min. Being strong needs some work but will help much more than getting new bike parts

You were already there once(squealing). May want to re-read this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16952&p=214638&hili ... op#p214638

Some other stuff here (bite point):

Alpinum wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:00 pm If you have a wandering bite point, it's likely (since you have bled the system well already) that your brakes' orifice holes are too small.

I've had similar issues (so far with 8 Shimano brake levers) and was able to solve them (unless sub freezing) by using Plutoline HPX 2.5 wt oil. Lever feel is much better, lighter and snappier.

Another way is to disassemble the lever and drill the hole to 0.7 mm. Never done it myself, so can't comment further on it.

I tend to flush the system with about 40 mL of the new oil and do a (nearly) regular bleed afterwards.

Whilst I'm sure this doesn't solve the issues you have, here's what I think makes a decent DH brake (decent descent brake ):

Large rotors. Alu spider and/or thick braking area (>2 mm). 203 mm f/r or 220 mm f/r or mullet.
Good brake pads. There are organic and semi metallic compounds which work better than sintered (eg E compound from Swissstop vs. original Shimano). Usually semi metallic and sintered are the way to go in my experience.
Solid and regular bleeding.
4 pots.

Since I know you'll be wanting to know what models exactly;
Rotors: no specific brand, just what I get offered or is available. Going with the Jagwire Pro LR2 for a new build (big trail bike). Just for an example. Been using Magura MDR-P on the bike which will be replaced. Look huge, are ugly and heavy, worked great. Other rotors I quite like are some of Clarks.
Pads: Swissstop E pads. Best pads I ever used. Despite being (apparently) based on an organic compound, they behave more like sintered pads. Need a little warm up to develop their full potential. Last much longer then eg the equally powerful Trickstuff Performance pads.
I try to bleed once a year ("try" ). I use mentioned Plutoline oil. Been using it for some years know. Works well. Better than the Shimano, Trickstuff or Magura oils.
Lever/caliper: Currently I still have one bike with DOT fluids, but moving away from it with the new build. All my trail bikes will then have Shimano 4 pot brakes and Shimano levers. 2 x 4 pot XT's (M8120), 1 x SLX lever (M7120) with former 4 pot XT caliper (M8020).

Regard the brake as a system of many parts (brake levers, brake caliper, pads, rotor, hydraulics, hose). You can adjust this system's modulation, power and heat management by changing any one of the parts. I've tested many of the parts isolated and was quite surprised just how little a difference eg. 2 vs. 4 pot makes. Change pads or rotor shape and size and you may have a bigger differences.

You're bit of a nutter if you're still reading. I've a cold and am digesting after another huge breakfast, so have an excuse to spending this much time typing

Last words.
With your segment of some 12 % gradient on 80 m vert loss and the need to replace pads after some 2000 or 4000 m vert loss, I think you must have broken the matrix.

It's 80m of height loss each time, not really that much, well within XC capabilities

This
Every brake should cope with this . I have only ever used Sintered and when they squeal the problem is almost always cold or poorly aligned calliper.

Lazarus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 10:24 am

It's 80m of height loss each time, not really that much, well within XC capabilities

This
Every brake should cope with this . I have only ever used Sintered and when they squeal the problem is almost always cold or poorly aligned calliper.

It also depends on the gradient. There's a very short but quite steep mountain path not far from where I live. Just measured it: 260 m distance, 83 m vert loss. Makes it 32 %. From experience I know it's enough to have a regular brake (2 pot, 180 mm f/r, original pads) start to fail.
I know, the gradient of Shaf's segment is about a third, but the vert difference alone, whilst it seems tiny, doesn't account for much.

All brakes would still be fine with that as I would be walking
Yes fair point an "extreme" DH route might be a step too far for XC brakes But I have ridden the bit shaf means [ with him ] and they will all cope with that

Lazarus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:58 am All brakes would still be fine with that as I would be walking
Yes fair point an "extreme" DH route might be a step too far for XC brakes But I have ridden the bit shaf means [ with him ] and they will all cope with that

True, but remember we rode it uphill Jon. Going back down is a whole different beast (and reason why I always try to ride down the climb before it that's at 20% but no loose rocks and constantly changing terrain). I've always tried to avoid riding down it (maybe ridden down about 5 times in the last 15 years, whereas been up (walking mainly, except for 5 times or so) I'd been about 80. Then again, you probably would be fine riding down it lots, but I don't manage well with broken ribs and collarbones

Anyway, back on topic of my rubbish riding style and the phenomena of (almost) wearing through the rear pads in such a short time. Sadly I can confirm it's true but also that it's mostly down to what Stu said "stop riding your brakes". Makes sense how I've done the rears but not the fronts, especially cos I'm always a bit (alot) worried about doing an endover that I keep the rear braked almost all the time. With juat a few breathing spaces for the rotor - last rotor came out black aftery first training ride when I got lots of squeal and when I swapped rotor/pads (to resin).

Will bleed the brakes shortly as that's obviously me having burnt the oil (maybe!). Thanks again and hopefully I'll get better at this 'thing'. Climb linked below - the first 0.3km is a constant 10% or so when I'm trying to control the speed before I hit the next section. Which is about 17% for 0.3km and where all the loose and sharp rocks are... It's open enough but this is probably where I'm riding the brakes the most...

Last 0.3km is a bit flatter at about 7% but really tight with overgrown branches and thorns (hand was numb yesterday from having been scaratched by the thorns round the corner on the way home). Again, I'm not letting go of the brakes here much as it's a narrow section to ride unless I want the overhrowing trees in my face!!

Rubbish riders hey If Stu was closeby I'd pribably book a few sessions with him on his mtb training thing. But he's not, so I'll just have to practice and teach myself. Did think of doing a virtual session with him, but pics/vids are never the same!

redefined_cycles wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:42 pm True, but remember we rode it uphill Jon. Going back down is a whole different beast (and reason why I always try to ride down the climb before it that's at 20% but no loose rocks and constantly changing terrain). I've always tried to avoid riding down it (maybe ridden down about 5 times in the last 15 years, whereas been up (walking mainly, except for 5 times or so) I'd been about 80. Then again, you probably would be fine riding down it lots, but I don't manage well with broken ribs and collarbones

Hopefully this doesn’t come across as being negative or even snide, but why are you taking on an Everest attempt on a hill you don’t like riding down? Surely it will be stressful going down it 100+ times in a day?